Antinatalism

[quote]The notion that it would have been better never to exist is among those which meet with the most opposition. Every man, incapable of seeing himself except from inside, regards himself as necessary, even indispensable, every man feels and perceives himself as an absolute reality, as a whole, as the whole. The moment we identify ourselves entirely with our being, we react like God, we are God.
It is only when we live at once within and on the margins of ourselves that we can conceive, quite calmly, that it would have been preferable that the accident we are should never have occurred. [/quote]

[quote]We celebrate life and mourn death. Yet life create death, and death create life. Every cradle is a grave. Why not celebrate death and mourn life?[/quote]

As an “anti-natalist,” I believe that life is so bad, so painful, that human beings should stop having children for reasons of compassion. Not only is life painful but by living it the way we humans do as societies we are destroying our planet, the habitat we share with all other animals.
Wouldn't the world be a more beautiful place without sentient life?

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OogieBoogie · F

Better? ....the world hasn't finished yet. Gotta break some eggs to make a cake 🤷

Sentient ?....you assume humans are the only sentiment beings on this planet , are you sure?

And as to God being in your argument, that's kinda presumptuous as a tiny momentary infinitesimal physical being to assume you think an eternal entiity such as God agrees with your philosophy.

Let me ask you this since you believe you can think in the margins of existence like God : why were we made in this form, if not to experience life?

RebelliousSpirit · F

@OogieBoogie [quote]Sentient ?....you assume humans are the only sentiment beings on this planet , are you sure?[/quote]

No but I think the animal kingdom is superior. Maybe they should stay at least they don't have our conscioussness which I regard as a plague upon humanity.

There is no God and the quote I used doesn't even say that there is. God is nothing but a manmade idea, an ideal being we cannot even hope to become yet in a way we already are our own Gods.
Humanity is no creation we are the product of an evolutionary process and are a cosmic accident, a cruel joke in our vast, infinite and indifferent universe.

OogieBoogie · F

@RebelliousSpirit you used God in your reasoning.
And again in this . You say there is no god, but say we are gods.

And even if we are an accident as you say, in an Evolutionary process....that process isn't over. It has eons yet to go .

Basically you're assuming a philosophy part way through a cosmic process, and because [i]you [/i] don't see a point in it, it should all be ended before it's even finished.

Do you know what a cake looks like before it's cooked?
It's a goopy unrecognisable mess, can't even hold itself together .
By your reasoning ....it should be thrown out coz you think it looks yucky.😂

The reality is, your philosophy doesn't matter, won't change the world, or the pain, or it's evolution of what it will become .

It's just a complaint of a nihilistic view point.
And nihilism is easy ....it means you don't have to try , or hope, or change, or struggle, or work, or sacrifice .
In fact ....what it means is: you sit on the sidelines enjoying enough things in life that you have time, space and freedom to complain about how awful it is....but don't do bugger all to change it...
...to be a constructive part of that cosmic evolution.

Ie, you wanna reach that evolutionary consciousness of godhood, but don't wanna do all the icky painful shit to get there😅

I'm sorry honey .... but it's an essential part of your spiritual evolution. Even in consciousness there is 'no pain, no gain'.

Every soul needs challenge, pain and crisis to move on. If not, it's just a hamster wheel.🤷

RebelliousSpirit · F

@OogieBoogie God as cultural concept not as an existing entity

[quote]Basically you're assuming a philosophy part way through a cosmic process, and because you don't see a point in it, it should all be ended before it's even finished.[/quote]

Yes

[quote]Do you know what a cake looks like before it's cooked?
It's a goopy unrecognisable mess, can't even hold itself together .
By your reasoning ....it should be thrown out coz you think it looks yucky.[/quote]

We know what a cake is, what it is supposed to look like and we know how to deal with the ingridients to get there.
Our cosmic process is neither linear nor predestined.

[quote]means you don't have to try , or hope, or change, or struggle, or work, or sacrifice .[/quote]

All your struggle will be meaningless and pointless in the end anyway, hope is a false sensation that keeps you going and sacrifices are used in fictions about a heroes journey in order to uphold hope, a lie that is supposed to make life bearable and to keep people from the only right thing to do... from giving up.

[quote]you wanna reach that evolutionary consciousness of godhood, but don't wanna do all the icky painful shit to get there[/quote]

This shows you misunderstood the quote. It's not god given, it's a change of perspective that may be difficult to most.
Also whether you actually engage in things that may be painful or you try to evade it pain is inevitable only in non existance people are free.

Also there are no "souls" only the collection of data we recieve from our environment.

OogieBoogie · F

@RebelliousSpirit a change of perspective ?
And how does one magically reach that change of perspective ? Wait for it to drop on you ?
Google it ?
Or does self revelation come through being forced to ones limits?

You're using word salad . Choosing terms such as 'consciousness' as an exterior thing, yet refuting it has any meaning to our physical existence is contradictory .
Using terms such as God to give meaning to your 'higher than thou' comprehension of existence, yet denying a higher existence exists is likewise.

And saying hope is false and sacrifice is useless is a cop out . Coz you don't wanna face reality and do those things ...coz it's [b]hard[/b]. You just wanna give up.
No effort to your own existence or evolution of self.

Nihilism is a total cop out.

It's you telling yourself you have a viable reason to do fuck all, give up ....ride it out at no expense or effort to yourself.
Just enjoy the ride while complaining all the while it's not what you wanted.
And then trying to make others feel stupid for trying, so you don't have to feel guilty for not.

If you really believed in nihilism, if you thought it was the answer to everything ....you would have committed to it.

Either way you argue ...you're a hypocrite to your own philosophy .🤷

All you are doing is desperately justifying wasting your life .

Edit: You call yourself Rebellious Spirit, yet you don't even know how to rebel. Or what your spirit is.
Rebels have causes.
Spirits have purpose

You don't even want to use your life to experience the ideals of your namesake .🤷

RebelliousSpirit · F

@OogieBoogie [quote]And how does one magically reach that change of perspective ?[/quote]

That may be different for anyone. Being forced to ones limits may be exactly what triggers this revelation. I nearly ended up being raped and I believe this and being homeless for some time fundamentally shaped my philosophy and outlook on life.
It's in the midst of our greatest pain we are able to see life for what it truly is.

[quote]Using terms such as God to give meaning to your 'higher than thou' comprehension of existence, yet denying a higher existence exists is likewise.[/quote]

Again you didn’t understand the meaning of the cioran quote.

[quote]It's you telling yourself you have a viable reason to do fuck all, give up ...[/quote]

It's not about giving up in the sense of not doing anything in life but more about seeing that humanity should slowly start fading out by procreating less since it always ends up in more despair. Not existing is a superior state of being measured by comparing what is with what isn't.
You are the one to bring nihilism up in the first place. Antinatalism does belong in this philosophical framework but it's a different approach.

[quote]All you are doing is desperately justifying wasting your life .[/quote]

You build your argumentation on the false premise I am arguing about how people live their lives or how I live mine when that’s not the point.

OogieBoogie · F

@RebelliousSpirit if we were just an evolutionary byproduct, we wouldn't have a consciousness.

And it IS a nihilistic approach. Saying nothing matters and that we are pointless is totally nihilistic.

Consciousness IS an evolution in itself, and you can't reach its purer state without evolving to get there, and you can't evolve without experiencing everything that there is to be human ...which includes pain .

Even Buddha realized doing nothing was pointless way to live.

You're seeing yourself and humanity as separate from this world, when it isn't.

And that's my point to your question....it's not that we've got to die out, it's that we've got to evolve more, to understand it is part of us, and we of it.
Just coz you can't see the point of this, ...and us, and all this, doesn't mean there isn't one .

You think mankind has no positive part to play in this world, when that's just not true.

But hey, if you believe you can reach a higher consciousness by stepping out of the process, go for it.
It might be a lesson within itself.

I just prefer to try to be part of the solution, than the problem, even if it seems tiny and ineffectual.
The ocean is made of drops of water.

Not ever appreciating or using what you've been given is a self defeating state. You create your own hopelessness.

You can either use your pain and evolve with it, or you can wallow in it and give up. But if everyone did it, we'd stop the whole process...that 'ocean' of consciousness would dry up and wed have to start all over again.

Which is destructive on a cosmicly conscious level.

The fact is, this isn't the first time we've been destructive as a species, and it might not be the last. Just because life isn't perfect doesn't mean we don't have a part in it to make it so.

Killing us off is not the solution you think it is. It'd just be a way to make it go through the whole process again, delaying our worlds evolution .
Don't give up just coz you can't see the finish line. We are all one lap of this race.