Human rights definitely don't make sense when you have guns inserted in the list.

@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout that's not the same thing.

@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout Baseball bat, mace, non lethal rubber bullet weapons, tasers.... there are other means to defend yourself. A right to defend yourself has nothing to do with gun ownership.

@Gloomy all things that still kill people.
And it absolutely does, you can't even explain how it doesn't

@Jackaloftheazuresand 🙄 Not that fast and this many in a short period of time. The things I listed are also easier to use in times of psychological pressure and are less likely to kill someone.
Guns only exist to kill

@Gloomy one life or a thousand, if you're willing to accept death then you should accept death in full because at least then it's fair.
Are they or did you just make that up?

That's the point of a weapon since you don't want to be having to fight off an attacker any longer than you have to. Killing is an important part of life, you kill with every meal. Does that mean eating only exists to kill or is that simplifying why people eat?

@Jackaloftheazuresand human rights aren't comprehensible in places where guns were. Culture is downstream from infrastructure and the experience it makes. We're going to agree with the biggest bully around. Only threats can move us.

@Jackaloftheazuresand [quote]one life or a thousand, if you're willing to accept death then you should accept death in full because at least then it's fair.
Are they or did you just make that up?[/quote]

That's not a reaction to the point I made but sure go ahead.

You can also avoid eating meat and as a society we do put humans above animals, of course you can debate the morality of that but that is how it is. Grasping at straws when having to use such an argument.
You have to eat in order to survive and why again would people need to own firearms when there are alternatives to self defense that, looking at countries with stricter gun laws and a general distain for guns also work.

@Gloomy Sure it is, you excuse death by the numbers.

Meat only? Everything you eat involves killing, even lab grown tissue of animals(and plants) will have microorganisms. You surviving is not a necessity only a desire no more important than a desire to defend oneself with a gun. Why not keep it at fists then if all it takes is alternatives? It doesn't matter what they choose to defend themselves as they commit no fault in doing so. If I'm going to die it's going to be because I failed and not because people like you limited my options. Also I don't see their laws as "working" due to the fact that the people are still as violent as ever. That's not progress, that's hiding a problem

@Jackaloftheazuresand It's about killing yes you make it about death broadly and again like I pointed out we place human beings over animals therefore you trying to push the discussion in that direction is simply ignorance on your part.

It's not about self defense that is something I support obviously but guns are easily used to committ shootings and to do more harm than possible with a mace for example. Also using a gun in self defense can go terribly wrong.

[quote]the people are still as violent as ever.[/quote]

Yes that's why taking away and regulating firearms is a good move. A violent person only having access to knives safes lives cause if they take up a gun and go out to shoot they will kill more people.

@Gloomy You only think it's ignorance because your argument is unsuited for the consideration. There is no push because it all goes together.

The security and ideals afforded by guns are more valuable than every ill created by them. Which is why your good move is shortsighted and childish. Humanity isn't worth saving unless it can coexist with its own danger.

@Jackaloftheazuresand Security and ideals afforded by guns? You are delusional. No safe country has or needs to have tons of guns circulating around. It is not shortsided since this has been the case in other countries for over 40 years if not more with stricter restrictions often added.

[quote]Humanity isn't worth saving unless it can coexist with its own danger.[/quote]
I get Social Darwinist vibes from you. Guns and poverty are a very dangerous mix that does not have to exist but the US system and propaganda would never aknowledge real problems or enact change.

@Gloomy Yes, the sanctity of life is preserved only so far as the individual is. Safety means a few things but their form of safety is not something you should want, safe because you can't is lesser than safe because you choose not.

Everything is a something-ist to you. Nothing has to exist but if we're going to pretend that it does then there is one thing above all else and that is a fulcrum between mastery with order or harmony with chaos. For poverty, if you just wished it away you'd learn nothing and prove nothing. It's a spiritless endeavor and by that token defeats itself.

@Jackaloftheazuresand Ok your text does not make much sense to me but what you are talking about is something like an individuals hero journey or some shit?

@Gloomy Why do you want to save lives? Then I'm going to ask you why that as well, and again, and again until we reach the universal truth. Nothing else matters but that

@Jackaloftheazuresand Out of my altruistic nature I believe we humans are precious and very complex and most importantly social beings so that we have the responsibility to take care of each other, help each other and aim to create a system that leads to health and well being for all. The more selfish answer would be that I can't bare to see suffering. Only in community, cooperation and peace we can be close with nature again and reveal our true potential.

Only idiots believe that there is a universal truth to any of this.

@Gloomy That was the answer I expected unfortunately. Then opposing you will be no different.

@Jackaloftheazuresand Seems like you take issue with it care to elaborate?

@Gloomy You'd be worthless to what I seek because you do as you do just as a rock floating through space. Conversing with an inanimate object would be the same as talking with myself, there's nothing there.

@Jackaloftheazuresand please go to therapy or a proffessional in the medical field. This is delusional talk and what do you even seek?

@Gloomy something alive

@Jackaloftheazuresand Cells are life and everything around you is in a way alive

@Gloomy I think he has a valid concern....people "should" be able to protect themselves. Not being a gun advocate, I guess I'm just thinking he has a point we should consider. I plan to use a gun someday...just once....