Say what you will about the New Atheists...

They stood for debate. There was an intellectualism to it even if not all its proponents were philosophically rigorous (though I fault Sam Harris's "The Moral Landscape" less than most). They went away. Trump got elected. Then Charlie Kirk gets shot. Say what you will about him, he also stood for debate. And Trump is very serious about silencing his opponents however he can. Free speech in America was always sort of penned in by what it was communally appropriate to say, and that was true of the founding of the country no less than it is true of left and right today. But we had a culture of tolerated dissent. It hasn't always worked out well for us. The Civil War is an obvious breakdown of this. And it did us little good in the Gilded Age or the Depression. But this seems to be failing us again. The right hates the left with a passion, and the left is stuck with trying to manage a fascist President. Tolerated dissent isn't really a thing anymore. Intergroup dialogue, debate, is not a popular thing. I'm not talking about scripted youtube series or podcasts, I'm talking about legitimate opening up to legitimate points and meeting or admitting you cannot meet them in a case. It might touch someone's sacred cow. And we can't have that, it isn't polite. Which is just an overreach of things like politeness. People need to talk to each other more instead of interacting with bots.

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OogieBoogie · F

I thought the American civil war was about slavery🤔

bijouxbroussard · F

@OogieBoogie It was about slavery.

Slavery helped fuel the South’s economy and their social structure.

The Southern states seceded from the Union.

On the Secession documents each representative gave as his reason for seceding the concern that Lincoln would abolish slavery.

It’s a matter of record.🙁

OogieBoogie · F

@bijouxbroussard Thank you 🤗
i thought so.

I was a little scared from the posters comment that people weren't being taught the truth.

bijouxbroussard · F

@OogieBoogie Sadly, under MAGA they may not be right now. But as long as the original Secession documents exist, anyone who considers it important can read—in their own words—what the founders of the Confederacy intended and why.

OogieBoogie · F

@bijouxbroussard you know, i wouldn't be surprised if that happend.

This is such a freaky time for america ...its crazy rn.

The sad thing is.....people rarely look up stuff anymore.
They expect information to be put in front of them....and expect it to be true.

People dont seem to fact find much anymore🫤

Alyosha · 36-40, M

@OogieBoogie It was. That was the breakdown in tolerated dissent. Half the country believed in something that was increasingly anathema to the other half. Why do you have to miss the big picture?

OogieBoogie · F

@Alyosha But it wasnt tolerated.
It wasnt tolerated so much...it became a war.

I think its terribly unfair to water down how strong an issue slavery is ....into just "dissenting parties '.

Sidewinder · 36-40, M

@OogieBoogie There's more than one side to every war that's ever occurred in our Earth's history.

The American Civil War, (1860-1865) as you already know, had two sides, the Union North and the Confederate South.

From my limited knowledge of the war, the Confederate South were fighting to keep slavery going, while the Union north were fighting to abolish it, however, slavery wasn't the only reason the war was fought.

Like many wars that preceded and succeeded the American Civil War, this was a war of attrition.

Both sides wanted land and materials to maintain their economy and they were willing to fight for them.

OogieBoogie · F

@Sidewinder oh i understand that too.

I also understand that the southern sugar barons were making obscene profits due to the fact they had a MASSIVE free labour source.

There is no way in hell those that didn't have that sort of unethical advantage, could complete economically.

No war is ever for one single reason.

bijouxbroussard · F

@OogieBoogie

I think its terribly unfair to water down how strong an issue slavery is ....into just "dissenting parties '.

I agree. And all anyone has to do to fully understand how strongly the South felt about the prospect of slavery being abolished is to consider the fact that they chose to leave the United States and then go to war—to be able to continue owning human beings.

The South also fired the first shots of the Civil War, at Fort Sumter.

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