Question for proponents of UBI/Moneyless societies...

How would something like this work? I have researched it, and I have heard people say that as long as our basic needs were met, Home, food, etc., people would finally be able to pursue whatever they wanted, whether it be art or whatever they wanted.

This sounds great in theory, but where do these things come from? Who provides it to us? I'm assuming that the answer to this question is Government, but why would we be so willing to give them that sort of power, and how do we ensure that they don't overstep their boundaries? If they are giving us this stuff, what is to stop them from making demands of us or telling us what we are able to do? The proponents of UBI/Moneyless societies may have altruistic intentions, but one can be sure that the Government will not.

Also, where is the incentive to invent things that need to be invented? Doctors, nurses, lawyers, etc, are not going to provide their services for free, and I know that I personally wouldn't do something without knowing I am getting something in return. And no, the "good feeling" you get from helping someone doesn't cut it. I like material wealth, I like buying things online. It may not be healthy, but if that is what I want to do, why does that matter to anyone else? It would be fine if the ones who believed in this didn't feel the need to try and change the world to include everyone else. I guess I never understood the ones who feel as though they should change the world.

This was just something on my mind. I am just trying to understand the other point of view. It just feels as though, in order to make something like this work, we'd have to sacrifice the things that make us happy, and we'd only have what we NEED, but never have what we WANT, and both needs and wants are equally as important.

Thanks for reading, and now my head hurts! :)

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TinyViolins · 31-35, M

There's a few things that need to be clarified first before getting into the real nuts and bolts of it.

For starters, a UBI is mostly meant to help people cover the bare necessities, not to supplant their current income. Even if you're a minimum wage worker working only part time, you would still make more money from working than you would from the UBI program. It's an amount too small to live comfortably on, but enough so that people don't have to suffer through poverty.

People in general like to have options, and you need money to have more options, so people are still going to find ways of making money. Maybe they want a bigger house, maybe they want a car, maybe they want new clothes or furniture. A UBI meant to primarily cover the bare necessities isn't going to accommodate those desires, so people still seek better paying employment.

As far as how to make it safe from the government, at least in the United States, you could sign into a law that exists in perpetuity, so that it would need a supermajority in Congress to overturn it. If something is bad enough to unite Congress, then it's probably something serious.

And the funding part, there's a variety of ways that tax revenue could be raised in order to make sure everybody shares in the wealth of a nation. One is by using a value added tax, so that massive companies like Amazon or Netflix can pay their fair share of taxes into the system instead of exploiting loopholes. Another way to pay for it is to phase out government spending on various welfare programs since most people would be able to meet their basic needs and be free to work in order to supplement the rest.

Bri89 · 31-35, M

@TinyViolins Ah, okay. Thank you for clarifying it for me. This is why I ask so I can better understand.

twiigss · M

This is exactly what kind of world Star Trek lives in. No more money, people aren't obsessed with owning material things. Hunger, poverty, homelessness has been eliminated entirely. The "challenge" is to enrich yourself and enjoy life. Do the things you want to do, be who you want to be.

Sounds pretty good to me. I hate money, wish it was never even invented. But here's what I'm seeing. Let's say we do go moneyless. So if you need milk, eggs, bacon, hot dogs, hot dog rolls, spaghetti, sauce, ketchup, mustard, peanut butter, etc. etc. etc. basically a grocery list, you just go to the store to get what you need, but everything to me would have a limit. Maybe 1 gallon of milk every 7 days allowed. Because people will abuse this if limits aren't set.

Say your TV broke, go to the store and just get a new TV. Bring in broken TV to show it's broken, limit 1 every 5 years or unless it breaks.

As far as incentive? I say just look around. Look at this covid thing happening. As a doctor or researcher I would work for the human race to find a cure, and not work towards, "well I need money so I ain't helping" That helps no one. What about possible asteroids slamming into Earth? As a researcher the incentive would be, "let's figure out a way to protect the human race and Earth from a catastrophe" and not "well I expect money before I start work on this" Like that's my biggest complaint. People say they are for saving Earth or helping, no they're not. They're in it for a huge, fat paycheck. If money was never invented, I think we'd be better off.

I have everything I need, but am definitely not happy.

Bri89 · 31-35, M

@twiigss Thank you. There are many factors at play here, and I am only trying to understand that mindset. Yes, money is a tool that can be exploited for evil, but I don't think that that makes money inherently evil. I just think that there should be a way to teach people to use it for good rather than using it to exploit others for profit. I just don't know about a world where we would get rid of it altogether. It would definitely be a steep learning curve for all of us, that's for sure.

Thanks for replying.

Entwistle · 56-60, M

The UBI ideas and experiments i have read of everyone gets it,working people and unemployed.. hence the name Universal Basic Income.
It's a great idea,nobody should be homeless,hungry or destitute.

ninalanyon · 61-69, T

If you had just barely enough money to get by (UBI) would you try to get more? Money is not the only thing that motivates people. Quite likely it is not a sufficient motivator for the invention of the things we need anyway.

SW-User

I just don't understand how UBI would be funded if no one works and pays income tax

ninalanyon · 61-69, T

@SW-User From where do you get the idea that UBI would result in no one working?

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