Does the material world exist only to those who believe in science?

@LadyGrace
Thank you for your contribution. You made a distinction between perception and reality.

Using your viewpoint, both the physicist and the bird perceives themselves in a world. The physicist's world is a material one in which we all, who are educated in science, lives. The bird's world is perceived or imagined differently without any concepts of physics. Do you agree?

@LadyGrace This is a discussion thread. Please say something that you perceive as true and explain why it is true.

@sree251

That's already quite obvious. Your theories don't make any sense because they're not common sense

@LadyGrace
You are quite right but I am not presenting any theory. I am making an argument that questions the immanence of the material world. I am asserting that it is a belief of science and exist for those accept live in that conceptual reality, a consensus worldview. Common sense is just that: common even if it is nonsensical.

@robertsnj
I accept the experimental data presented by Newton but I don't believe in his discovery of gravity. The belief in gravity necessitate the acceptance of matter which is any substance that has mass and takes up space by having volume.

@robertsnj
Is my inquiry hard to follow? I am asking very basic questions that even a high school kid can get. Grasping the fundamental concepts of physics is something else. As for the bird biologist, none has authority on what the bird knows. I am making a guess myself. My contention is that the bird uneducated in physics cannot perceive the world as we do.

You disagree?

@whowasthatmaskedman Ok, there you have it. You either transcend or you stay in handcuffs. And those handcuffs are pretty hard to slip out of.

We cannot think our way out of this. If we don't have skin in the game, there is no way out of the material world. The desperation, the need to break free of the handcuffs has to consume you. I wonder if you have seen the movie "The Shawshank Redemption"? The prison is the material world. All of us are like the old guy Brooks who had gotten used to and need the safety of the prison. He couldn't live without those handcuffs; and when they were taken off, he committed suicide. Unless you have a need to break out, a desperate need, you won't even go there. Then, there are those of us who have given up trying and no longer give a damn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBsaW4VyAZ8

@sree251 You covered it well. And the answer is in the form of a metaphor. No one if getting out of this physical world alive. But like Brooks, and later Red, we can leave our mark on it to say we were here. I have my family and through my choices and efforts, their lives have been changed in a way that says "I was here". Thats better than a statue or a pyramid..😷

@whowasthatmaskedman This thread is about Andy. I am Andy. I made that hole in the wall of my prison cell a long time ago. I am no longer in the prison where you are. This is why I asked the question: Does the material world exist only to those who believe in science?

Those who believe in science live in the material world: Shawshank Prison. It's not a bad place even for the homeless, who reek of urine stench, living in tents beneath bridges in our cities. For you, it is the best place to live this side of Heaven. You don't really care about the hole in my prison cell nor have interest in knowing what the material world is made of even if you could poke a hole in the sky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0jIwJt9QwA

@James25 Let's stay focused on the topic.

I know that I exist. It is not a matter of belief. If you believe in science, you exist as a human being made of flesh and bones living on a planet called Earth. I don't believe in science, and neither does the bird. To the bird, there is no planet Earth, and I doubt it sees itself as a bird. Like the bird, I don't see myself as a human being.

@sree251 you see yourself as a spiritual being. You are a spiritual being currently existing as a physical being

@James25
No, I don't see myself as a spiritual being.

A spiritual being, like a human being, is a definable entity.

The human being is a creature of science, an entity of the material world.

A spiritual being is a creature of religion, an entity of the spiritual world.

@sree251 during mahabharata war, on battlefield God said that he is parbrahm means singularity. That he has no rules, no restrictions etc. etc. [media=https://youtu.be/mPnvpRtqTT4]

In singularity all time, space mass is broken. That’s what elon musk talks about
AI reaching singularity, the smartest computer and he says it can’t be predicted what happens after that. I guess it is judgement day. [media=https://youtube.com/shorts/eSMnG6xxRSY?si=9AvRWWpgAnVBQUtQ].

That’s why I wanted to know the truth.

@Dumbman Singularity in theoretical physics describes the center of a black hole, a point of infinite density and gravity within which no object inside can ever escape, not even light. This is what mad scientists believe.

As for Elon Musk, he is talking about AI singularity. AI singularity is a hypothetical concept where artificial intelligence exceeds human intelligence. In simpler terms, if computers surpass humans' cognitive abilities, a new level of intelligence will emerge that is unachievable by people. This is also crazy talk. Computers are machines with mechanical cognitive capabilities. AI runs on logic. It cannot create or innovate something new the way we can. We are intelligent. AI can do tasks but cannot create.

Para Brahma is the highest form of God the creator, sustainer, and destroyer of all life. Religious belief is similar to speculative science unless you are the real deal and have transcended the material world.

I am not doubting you. Do you have a human body?

@sree251 yes I am 90 percent sure. The pattern of world matches this. [media=https://youtu.be/QST5hFBd3_E]

[media=https://youtu.be/6JZOjFVVKR0]

@LadyGrace
This is exactly what I mean: compound eyeglasses. You either serve God or the Devil, you can't serve both. When you put on compound eyeglasses, you serve the Devil. How many Christians do we have in the US Military? We even have chaplains with the rank of captain. How do they deal with "Thou shall not kill?"

@sree251

There can't be a discussion with you because you can only see things through the lens of a double minded person. On one hand you call yourself a Christian and then you deny it on another, mocking Christians. I have nothing more to say to you. You're confused.

@LadyGrace
I don't mock Christians anymore than Jesus mocked the Jews. He came to read the law right: instead of an eye for an eye, Jesus taught them to turn the other cheek. It infuriated them because it made no sense. They saw Jesus as confused.

@jshm2
What are you saying? You obviously have gone into this in serious way. Don't keep it too yourself, whatever you have come to realize.

@Kenworth4954 Your post is packed with insults but you don't back them up with arguments, not even one. The only statement you made to refute my premise is:


What is your understanding or definition of reality? What is your meaning for the word "perception"? Correct me if I am wrong, I suspect you must be equating perception to impression. We all have impressions that certain politicians are honest but the reality is that they are not. This is conventional thinking.

The OP poses a philosophical question. Our arguments can get pretty rigorous. I hope you are up to it.

Can you perceive space? One time, I was at a friend's home in the country. Looking in the distance, I said to him: "I think I can hit my golf ball onto that grassy bank with my 3 iron." He chuckled and told me that the spot I was looking at was at least a quarter mile away. He was right. I was just joshing because even though it did looked close enough, I knew what the reality was. Haven't we sometimes feel that the clouds were close enough to touch? Can we see into the distance and gauge the amount of space between us and the horizon? Is there depth of field? Does the tree trunk look two dimensional till you wrap your arms around it?

I understand why you feel violated by my "joke of a post". I am questioning your sanity. Yours is the consensus worldview of reality, our material world. Our education in science has packed us with the knowledge to perceive the world. We no longer see with our senses alone. Our minds are constantly feeding information to tell us what we are seeing. We see a maple tree, the bird doesn't.