Does the material world exist only to those who believe in science?

Perception is reality. We perceive with our senses, and our minds tell us what we are sensing. A bird perceives with its senses, and its mind tells it what it is sensing.

The mind retains relevant information as knowledge. The bird flies through the air but does its mind tell it that it is flying through space and the time it takes to get where it is going?

Space and time are concepts of physics. They are dimensions of a material world made up of matter, its third dimension. The three concepts of space, time, and matter are the fundamental thought patterns of physics, a branch of science invented by the human mind.

Can we conclude that the material world exists only to those believe in science?

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whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

The material world exists, whether you believe in it or not. this is evident in consequences. Avoiding consequences is possible sometimes, but has a cost of of its own. Like these Sovereign Citizens who say the law doesnt apply to them. The handcuffs are quite real, whether they believe in them or not..😷

sree251 · 41-45, M

@whowasthatmaskedman This is a philosophy thread that probes the nature of our material reality. The world we live in leaves much to be desired. Case in point is your own personal situation: caring for a life partner. Most people are not as fortunate. Many here in this forum have difficulty living, some want to kill themselves. Imagine someone who has everything, great looking, successful, rich and famous, loved by the world, suffering from inner unhappiness till it killed him. I am talking about Elvis Presley. Your journey in this material world is not over yet. What if you and your wife could transcend this material world and be free of those handcuffs? What are they made of? Are they actually real or imagined. What have you got to lose if you were to check them out? The truth will set you free.

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@sree251 I accept the philosophy approach to your premise. Personally I inhabit a world where philosophy occupies the space left once the requirements of the material world are met. Never jump out of a plane with a philosophical parachute..😷

sree251 · 41-45, M

@whowasthatmaskedman

Personally I inhabit a world where philosophy occupies the space left once the requirements of the material world are met

Quite right. The problem is that the requirements of the material world are never met. The reason is the body and the tending to its needs. Apart from air, which is plentiful and inexhaustible, food, clothing, and shelter cost money. And money - the cause of insecurity - is always in short supply and could vanish in a financial collapse. In addition to this, the vulnerability of the body to injury and disease is a constant concern; especially, in a violent world. In such circumstances, those handcuffs are very real.

Do you agree with my observations?

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@sree251 I do agree and I see it (through my material lens) as part of the genetic inheritence that got us to the top of the food chain, by agressively wanting more and never settling for "enough."😷

sree251 · 41-45, M

@whowasthatmaskedman Ok, there you have it. You either transcend or you stay in handcuffs. And those handcuffs are pretty hard to slip out of.

We cannot think our way out of this. If we don't have skin in the game, there is no way out of the material world. The desperation, the need to break free of the handcuffs has to consume you. I wonder if you have seen the movie "The Shawshank Redemption"? The prison is the material world. All of us are like the old guy Brooks who had gotten used to and need the safety of the prison. He couldn't live without those handcuffs; and when they were taken off, he committed suicide. Unless you have a need to break out, a desperate need, you won't even go there. Then, there are those of us who have given up trying and no longer give a damn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBsaW4VyAZ8

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@sree251 You covered it well. And the answer is in the form of a metaphor. No one if getting out of this physical world alive. But like Brooks, and later Red, we can leave our mark on it to say we were here. I have my family and through my choices and efforts, their lives have been changed in a way that says "I was here". Thats better than a statue or a pyramid..😷

sree251 · 41-45, M

@whowasthatmaskedman This thread is about Andy. I am Andy. I made that hole in the wall of my prison cell a long time ago. I am no longer in the prison where you are. This is why I asked the question: Does the material world exist only to those who believe in science?

Those who believe in science live in the material world: Shawshank Prison. It's not a bad place even for the homeless, who reek of urine stench, living in tents beneath bridges in our cities. For you, it is the best place to live this side of Heaven. You don't really care about the hole in my prison cell nor have interest in knowing what the material world is made of even if you could poke a hole in the sky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0jIwJt9QwA