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Christianity is unacceptable because their god is equivalent to an abusive husband.
However, more than it is unacceptable it's just [i]unbelievable[/i].
Having read the Bible, it comes across as a profoundly [i]human[/i] narrative in scope and message. I found nothing of necessarily divine provenance a i read it and quite a lot of what appeared to be humans making up stories to explain their world and justify their actions.
And that's ignoring the interpretations of the bible that put it in direct contradiction of observable science.
As for it being [i]unacceptable[/i]...while i'm sure i'd bend the knee if indeed this god of Abraham showed itself to be real, it's not really a god i'd love or want to follow.
Too much wrath, too much cruelty, too much demanding of abject worship. too much murder by his hand or at his order.
And that's not to say that i don't recognize the parts where he does show mercy and love and so on....but if you're married to a man who loves and takes care of you most of the time but every now and then just BEATS THE SHIT out of you and threatens your life....is that a loving, healthy relationship? Is that one you'd want to stay in?
That's my view of the god of Abraham.
However, more than it is unacceptable it's just [i]unbelievable[/i].
Having read the Bible, it comes across as a profoundly [i]human[/i] narrative in scope and message. I found nothing of necessarily divine provenance a i read it and quite a lot of what appeared to be humans making up stories to explain their world and justify their actions.
And that's ignoring the interpretations of the bible that put it in direct contradiction of observable science.
As for it being [i]unacceptable[/i]...while i'm sure i'd bend the knee if indeed this god of Abraham showed itself to be real, it's not really a god i'd love or want to follow.
Too much wrath, too much cruelty, too much demanding of abject worship. too much murder by his hand or at his order.
And that's not to say that i don't recognize the parts where he does show mercy and love and so on....but if you're married to a man who loves and takes care of you most of the time but every now and then just BEATS THE SHIT out of you and threatens your life....is that a loving, healthy relationship? Is that one you'd want to stay in?
That's my view of the god of Abraham.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu The purpose of the biblical stories is to illustrate one or more of the real Ten Commandments found in Exodus 34:11-28. The stories are meant to show the benefits of total obedience and loyalty to the Boss (God, the chief priest, the emperor, the king, the family father). They also show the consequences of disobedience and disloyalty.
Some of the writers included clues that the complete work was just an elaborate hoax. They got away with it because no one knew any better. And, over time, people have became so brain-washed that they believe the most silly stories as reality.
Some of the writers included clues that the complete work was just an elaborate hoax. They got away with it because no one knew any better. And, over time, people have became so brain-washed that they believe the most silly stories as reality.
@Diotrephes
[quote]The stories are meant to show the benefits of total obedience and loyalty to the Boss[/quote]
I think that is a very apt description of the bulk of the bible.
[quote]Some of the writers included clues that the complete work was just an elaborate hoax[/quote]
That sounds kinda conspiracy theorist to me. Can you share an example?
[quote]The stories are meant to show the benefits of total obedience and loyalty to the Boss[/quote]
I think that is a very apt description of the bulk of the bible.
[quote]Some of the writers included clues that the complete work was just an elaborate hoax[/quote]
That sounds kinda conspiracy theorist to me. Can you share an example?
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu [quote]That sounds kinda conspiracy theorist to me. Can you share an example?[/quote]
Here's a little gem tucked away in a story but it could have been the final words in the Bible =
2 Maccabees 15:38-39 (CEB) =
"38 If the story was told effectively, this is what I wanted. But if it was told in a poor and mediocre fashion, this was the best I could do. 39 Just as it is harmful to drink wine or water alone while wine mixed with water is delightful and produces joy, so also may the writing of this story delight the ears of those who encounter this work.
The end."
Remember, even liars will tell you the truth but you have to be willing to receive it.
edit typo
Here's a little gem tucked away in a story but it could have been the final words in the Bible =
2 Maccabees 15:38-39 (CEB) =
"38 If the story was told effectively, this is what I wanted. But if it was told in a poor and mediocre fashion, this was the best I could do. 39 Just as it is harmful to drink wine or water alone while wine mixed with water is delightful and produces joy, so also may the writing of this story delight the ears of those who encounter this work.
The end."
Remember, even liars will tell you the truth but you have to be willing to receive it.
edit typo
@Diotrephes
Hmm i can see how one could get there but it reads to me as the author saying "i hope i did a good job telling this story", not an admission that he's made the story up.
Hmm i can see how one could get there but it reads to me as the author saying "i hope i did a good job telling this story", not an admission that he's made the story up.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu I think the writer confessed. If it had been a story of actual events it wouldn't have included all of the dialogue. and intimate details. The whole Bible and the Koran are just like all of the other epic stories, mainly fiction.
@Diotrephes
I think you're right the bible has an awful lot of fiction to it...i just don't think what you've shared here is evidence of that being admitted to by one of the authors.
It's also important to remember that the bible is written in several styles from several times and cultures which are not our own and which may have totally different conventions. Maybe it was perfectly normal to spice up an historical account by relaying it as a good story.
I think you're right the bible has an awful lot of fiction to it...i just don't think what you've shared here is evidence of that being admitted to by one of the authors.
It's also important to remember that the bible is written in several styles from several times and cultures which are not our own and which may have totally different conventions. Maybe it was perfectly normal to spice up an historical account by relaying it as a good story.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu Remember, the actual Bible was written by a committee of story tellers, writers, and artists in the 680s-early 690s. That is one reason why it flows seamless from beginning to end. It did not exist before they wrote it.
@Diotrephes
That doesn't sound right to me. The OT was written long before that and my understanding is that at least the gospels were written within like 70-100 years after Jesus' death.
I'd also disagree that they flow seamlessly lol
That doesn't sound right to me. The OT was written long before that and my understanding is that at least the gospels were written within like 70-100 years after Jesus' death.
I'd also disagree that they flow seamlessly lol
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu The oral stories existed but the Bible as a book did not exist until it was written in the 680s-early 690s. Sure, there probably were scattered pieces of scrolls floating around but they were never compiled into a single book until the committee did it in reaction to Uthman's Koran of the 640s.
As I've said before, if a legitimate Bible existed before that time then simply produce a clearly legible copy of it and then we can discuss where to get the best hamburgers.
The committee did an excellent job of tying all of the stories to one or more of the real Ten Commandments. They started at the beginning and ended with their version of the end of the world. Their stories taught complete obedience and total loyalty to the Boss (God, the chief priest. the emperor, the king, the family father). Disobedience to any of them warrants death.
The only major character in the Bible who did exactly as he was told to do without crying and whining was Noah. And when he was done he had a big roast and got falling down drunk.
You should be able to read any passage and tie it to one or more of the real Ten Commandments and explain if the actor is obeying or disobeying the commandment. But, if you don't know that then the stories will not make sense. And, if casually read, very few of the stories are logical because that is not their real purpose.
A better topic would be why do so many people believe in ancient ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish and Arabian religious fairy tales when they have nothing in common with them? Now that is truly illogical behavior.
As I've said before, if a legitimate Bible existed before that time then simply produce a clearly legible copy of it and then we can discuss where to get the best hamburgers.
The committee did an excellent job of tying all of the stories to one or more of the real Ten Commandments. They started at the beginning and ended with their version of the end of the world. Their stories taught complete obedience and total loyalty to the Boss (God, the chief priest. the emperor, the king, the family father). Disobedience to any of them warrants death.
The only major character in the Bible who did exactly as he was told to do without crying and whining was Noah. And when he was done he had a big roast and got falling down drunk.
You should be able to read any passage and tie it to one or more of the real Ten Commandments and explain if the actor is obeying or disobeying the commandment. But, if you don't know that then the stories will not make sense. And, if casually read, very few of the stories are logical because that is not their real purpose.
A better topic would be why do so many people believe in ancient ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish and Arabian religious fairy tales when they have nothing in common with them? Now that is truly illogical behavior.
@Diotrephes
[quote]but they were never compiled into a single book until the committee did it in reaction to Uthman's Koran of the 640s.[/quote]
Ok yeah, we're on the same page then. So the point i was trying to make stands. These are old stories and/or histories and it would be unwise to assess them based on how a modern historian might relay a historical event.
I'm sticking to my guns here. While i agree that the bible is at best historical fiction, I don't think you've given an example that is more readily interpreted as an admission of fabrication than it is simply the author expressing his hope that his readers enjoyed his work.
[quote]The committee did an excellent job of tying all of the stories to one or more of the real Ten Commandments.[/quote]
Oh i see what you mean. Yeah, in that way the bible is well put together.
[quote]but they were never compiled into a single book until the committee did it in reaction to Uthman's Koran of the 640s.[/quote]
Ok yeah, we're on the same page then. So the point i was trying to make stands. These are old stories and/or histories and it would be unwise to assess them based on how a modern historian might relay a historical event.
I'm sticking to my guns here. While i agree that the bible is at best historical fiction, I don't think you've given an example that is more readily interpreted as an admission of fabrication than it is simply the author expressing his hope that his readers enjoyed his work.
[quote]The committee did an excellent job of tying all of the stories to one or more of the real Ten Commandments.[/quote]
Oh i see what you mean. Yeah, in that way the bible is well put together.