yestestvennaya · 22-25, F
You say: “Our Catholics had no problem being in the school assembly, only the JWs withdrew.”
Why do you think Catholics have Catholic schools in England? They have the schools to receive Catholic education. Education they do not receive in Protestant schools.
There are Jew schools and Islamic ones also.
Why do you think Catholics have Catholic schools in England? They have the schools to receive Catholic education. Education they do not receive in Protestant schools.
There are Jew schools and Islamic ones also.
View 3 more replies »
yestestvennaya · 22-25, F
@FreddieUK Catholic Church is no more.
Those who think they seek to know everything know nothing. You are not taught wisdom; you are not taught the real world. You are taught to be vanilla. Yet you can't quell the human instinct to make others like you. You want more vanillas.
Those who think they seek to know everything know nothing. You are not taught wisdom; you are not taught the real world. You are taught to be vanilla. Yet you can't quell the human instinct to make others like you. You want more vanillas.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@yestestvennaya Sorry - I have no idea what you mean, but calling someone of whom you know nothing, "unnatural" reflects you, not your victims.
Of course breeding is natural, indeed biologically necessary, not for any individual organism once it has grown, but for its species at large. We humans are no different, we have our own mating instincts as any animal does; but we have more than just instinct. We have powerful intellects and choices too.
Many people stay childless either by choice (as their right) or by infertility (possibly treatable, if they so choose, as is also their right).
Others still, never have the opportunity to try. They genuinely cannot attract a mate, or they might do but are too poor to support a family properly so choose not to breed.
A few of course abjure relationships entirely, such as those who become momks or nuns. That is their choice although certainly not one I understand or would take!
There are also, anecdotally, couples who choose not to have children because they fear for the future of the world. If so, again, that is their choice.
Are any of those people "un-natural? Of course not!
My critiscism was not of people being single or childless although I am puzzled why you seem to condemn them.
Instead I questioned the call for "true Catholics" to exclude bachelors, spinsters and widows/ers - while accepting preaching from men who have chosen to be celibate bachelors!
If it does mean that, such exclusion is mere prejudice: ignorant, cruel, childish and cowardly.
Of course breeding is natural, indeed biologically necessary, not for any individual organism once it has grown, but for its species at large. We humans are no different, we have our own mating instincts as any animal does; but we have more than just instinct. We have powerful intellects and choices too.
Many people stay childless either by choice (as their right) or by infertility (possibly treatable, if they so choose, as is also their right).
Others still, never have the opportunity to try. They genuinely cannot attract a mate, or they might do but are too poor to support a family properly so choose not to breed.
A few of course abjure relationships entirely, such as those who become momks or nuns. That is their choice although certainly not one I understand or would take!
There are also, anecdotally, couples who choose not to have children because they fear for the future of the world. If so, again, that is their choice.
Are any of those people "un-natural? Of course not!
My critiscism was not of people being single or childless although I am puzzled why you seem to condemn them.
Instead I questioned the call for "true Catholics" to exclude bachelors, spinsters and widows/ers - while accepting preaching from men who have chosen to be celibate bachelors!
If it does mean that, such exclusion is mere prejudice: ignorant, cruel, childish and cowardly.
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
That's really interesting. When I was at school in the 1990s the Major government made a "daily act of religious worship" compulsory. Some teachers came up with quite innovative solutions to a requirement that nobody really supported and nobody enforced rigorously. My form tutor had a large book of medieval saints lives which she would read to us.
Sharon · F
@SunshineGirl That requirement was in the 1944 Education Act but it didn't specify which religion. It was a 1988(?) Act that said it must be "broadly christian". Parents' absolute right to excuse their child(ren) fro RE and/or religoius worship for any or no reason was unaffected. That didn't stop dishonest, evangelical, christian headteachers attempting to deny parents that right.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
Having studied many religions, I am of the clear opinion, that each organized religion is about control.
I see no such attempts of control in the atheistic points of view, simply because, they are not even organized. They have no places of worship either.
Atheists have no churches or places of worship! Therefore they can not be organized.
If you want your child educated with whatever religion, then you must see to it through your own religion. Not through the government.
Even unitarian churches are about control. They are organized by their believers. With their own places of worship.
I see no such attempts of control in the atheistic points of view, simply because, they are not even organized. They have no places of worship either.
Atheists have no churches or places of worship! Therefore they can not be organized.
If you want your child educated with whatever religion, then you must see to it through your own religion. Not through the government.
Even unitarian churches are about control. They are organized by their believers. With their own places of worship.
4meAndyou · F
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties."
The Department of Education, under Biden in 2023 wrote:
"The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from establishing religion and protects religious exercise and religious expression from unwarranted government interference and discrimination. By protecting the rights of all students to participate in religious expression or to choose not to do so, educators, administrators, and other school employees fulfill their constitutional obligations and create the inclusive learning environments necessary for student success.
In May 2023, the U.S. Department of Education released updated guidance on constitutional protections for prayer and religious expression in public elementary and secondary schools. This resource draws on that document to answer related frequently asked questions.
Under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965, all public elementary and secondary schools are required to comply with the standards set forth in the guidance, and each local educational agency receiving funds under the Act must annually certify to its State educational agency that it has no policy that prevents, or otherwise denies participation in, constitutionally protected prayer in schools."
Under Donald Trump:
"President Donald Trump announced upcoming guidance from the Department of Education protecting prayer in public schools during a speech at his Religious Liberty Commission’s Sept. 8 hearing.
The hearing, held at the Museum of the Bible in Washington, DC, marked the commission’s second public meeting and had a theme of “Religious Liberty in Public Education.”
Trump has long vowed to bring religion back to the nation, both on the campaign trail and so far during his second term. He walked out to the crowd at the Museum of the Bible shortly after 10:30 a.m., thanking the commission for doing an “amazing job.”
He said his administration would “protect the Judeo-Christian values of our founding.” Later in the day, the White House published an article listing Trump's "Top 100 Victories for People of Faith."
“To have a great nation, you have to have religion – I believe that so strongly,” Trump said at the hearing. “There has to be something after we go through all of this, and that something is God.”
He went on to allege that students are “indoctrinated with antireligious propaganda” in public schools before announcing the new Department of Education guidance. It was not immediately clear what the guidance would entail."
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties."
The Department of Education, under Biden in 2023 wrote:
"The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from establishing religion and protects religious exercise and religious expression from unwarranted government interference and discrimination. By protecting the rights of all students to participate in religious expression or to choose not to do so, educators, administrators, and other school employees fulfill their constitutional obligations and create the inclusive learning environments necessary for student success.
In May 2023, the U.S. Department of Education released updated guidance on constitutional protections for prayer and religious expression in public elementary and secondary schools. This resource draws on that document to answer related frequently asked questions.
Under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965, all public elementary and secondary schools are required to comply with the standards set forth in the guidance, and each local educational agency receiving funds under the Act must annually certify to its State educational agency that it has no policy that prevents, or otherwise denies participation in, constitutionally protected prayer in schools."
Under Donald Trump:
"President Donald Trump announced upcoming guidance from the Department of Education protecting prayer in public schools during a speech at his Religious Liberty Commission’s Sept. 8 hearing.
The hearing, held at the Museum of the Bible in Washington, DC, marked the commission’s second public meeting and had a theme of “Religious Liberty in Public Education.”
Trump has long vowed to bring religion back to the nation, both on the campaign trail and so far during his second term. He walked out to the crowd at the Museum of the Bible shortly after 10:30 a.m., thanking the commission for doing an “amazing job.”
He said his administration would “protect the Judeo-Christian values of our founding.” Later in the day, the White House published an article listing Trump's "Top 100 Victories for People of Faith."
“To have a great nation, you have to have religion – I believe that so strongly,” Trump said at the hearing. “There has to be something after we go through all of this, and that something is God.”
He went on to allege that students are “indoctrinated with antireligious propaganda” in public schools before announcing the new Department of Education guidance. It was not immediately clear what the guidance would entail."
4meAndyou · F
@FreddieUK I don't think our founders, especially Thomas Jefferson, believed that. Instead, he believed that NO ONE in government should be allowed to make laws prohibiting the establishment of religions, OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
THAT was the intent in our Constitution. Restricting, through law, the free exercise of religion in public schools DOES prohibit the free exercise of religion, in my opinion.
OUR battles are those of interpretation of the Constitution.
THAT was the intent in our Constitution. Restricting, through law, the free exercise of religion in public schools DOES prohibit the free exercise of religion, in my opinion.
OUR battles are those of interpretation of the Constitution.
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
@Sharon That's wrong. All children should have an understanding of the faiths that the people they encounter around them. There is much wilful ignorance pushed out on-line and school should be a place for dispassionate learning. However, as a Christian, I would never force anyone to pray or 'worship' against their will. Our Catholics had no problem being in the school assembly, only the JWs withdrew.
Sharon · F
@FreddieUK As Pagans, we withdrew our children from the christian religious assembly and RE when it was clear the "born again" christian headteacher was attempting to indoctrinate the children with christianity. We allowed them to attend RE in secondary school where they could learn about other religions.
