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New World Decisions From the Old World

This poster was placed in every school in England in 1870. It bans compulsory religious education (RE). I hope you can make out the print.


This was later overturned and RE became compulsory for all, with conscience clauses for those pupils not of the Church of England. These days state school RE is broad and not intended to propagate any one faith.
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SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
That's really interesting. When I was at school in the 1990s the Major government made a "daily act of religious worship" compulsory. Some teachers came up with quite innovative solutions to a requirement that nobody really supported and nobody enforced rigorously. My form tutor had a large book of medieval saints lives which she would read to us.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
Having studied many religions, I am of the clear opinion, that each organized religion is about control.

I see no such attempts of control in the atheistic points of view, simply because, they are not even organized. They have no places of worship either.

Atheists have no churches or places of worship! Therefore they can not be organized.

If you want your child educated with whatever religion, then you must see to it through your own religion. Not through the government.

Even unitarian churches are about control. They are organized by their believers. With their own places of worship.
4meAndyou · F
Thomas Jefferson wrote:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties."

The Department of Education, under Biden in 2023 wrote:

"The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from establishing religion and protects religious exercise and religious expression from unwarranted government interference and discrimination. By protecting the rights of all students to participate in religious expression or to choose not to do so, educators, administrators, and other school employees fulfill their constitutional obligations and create the inclusive learning environments necessary for student success.

In May 2023, the U.S. Department of Education released updated guidance on constitutional protections for prayer and religious expression in public elementary and secondary schools. This resource draws on that document to answer related frequently asked questions.

Under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965, all public elementary and secondary schools are required to comply with the standards set forth in the guidance, and each local educational agency receiving funds under the Act must annually certify to its State educational agency that it has no policy that prevents, or otherwise denies participation in, constitutionally protected prayer in schools."


Under Donald Trump:

"President Donald Trump announced upcoming guidance from the Department of Education protecting prayer in public schools during a speech at his Religious Liberty Commission’s Sept. 8 hearing.

The hearing, held at the Museum of the Bible in Washington, DC, marked the commission’s second public meeting and had a theme of “Religious Liberty in Public Education.”

Trump has long vowed to bring religion back to the nation, both on the campaign trail and so far during his second term. He walked out to the crowd at the Museum of the Bible shortly after 10:30 a.m., thanking the commission for doing an “amazing job.”

He said his administration would “protect the Judeo-Christian values of our founding.” Later in the day, the White House published an article listing Trump's "Top 100 Victories for People of Faith."


“To have a great nation, you have to have religion – I believe that so strongly,” Trump said at the hearing. “There has to be something after we go through all of this, and that something is God.”

He went on to allege that students are “indoctrinated with antireligious propaganda” in public schools before announcing the new Department of Education guidance. It was not immediately clear what the guidance would entail."
4meAndyou · F
@FreddieUK I don't think our founders, especially Thomas Jefferson, believed that. Instead, he believed that NO ONE in government should be allowed to make laws prohibiting the establishment of religions, OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

THAT was the intent in our Constitution. Restricting, through law, the free exercise of religion in public schools DOES prohibit the free exercise of religion, in my opinion.

OUR battles are those of interpretation of the Constitution.
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
@4meAndyou That's a helpful response for me to understand what's going on. I can see where the two interpretations find it difficult to be reconciled with one another.
4meAndyou · F
@FreddieUK Happy to be of help!
yestestvennaya · 22-25, F
You say: “Our Catholics had no problem being in the school assembly, only the JWs withdrew.”

Why do you think Catholics have Catholic schools in England? They have the schools to receive Catholic education. Education they do not receive in Protestant schools.

There are Jew schools and Islamic ones also.
Sharon · F
It still tends to promote christianity and the compulsory daily religious assembly must be "broadly christian". Thankfully that legal requirement is often ignored.
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
@Sharon I used to take them...I know,
Sharon · F
@FreddieUK Christian headteachers have been known to attempt to deny parents their legal right to excuse their children from RE and the religious assembly.
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
@Sharon That's wrong. All children should have an understanding of the faiths that the people they encounter around them. There is much wilful ignorance pushed out on-line and school should be a place for dispassionate learning. However, as a Christian, I would never force anyone to pray or 'worship' against their will. Our Catholics had no problem being in the school assembly, only the JWs withdrew.
New World is already here
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
@vic7ory I was thinking of the debate in the US over religion in schools which seems to be pretty polarised. It was clearly a debate in the 19th century here.

 
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