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Proselytizing

A few posts recently on the subject of proselytizing. Obviously a touchy subject. Live and let live is the cry, yet if we feel we have found something truly valuable it seems right in some ways to wish to share it.

"The Tao can be shared but not divided"

The Dharma, Buddhism, has its own scriptural exhortation to spread its message:-

Go forth, O monks, to bless the many, to bring happiness to the many, out of compassion for the world; go forth for the welfare, the blessing, the happiness of all beings.........Go forth and spread the teaching that is beautiful in the beginning, beautiful in the middle and beautiful in the end.

(From the Theravada scriptures)

Maybe we can only truly share ourselves? There were the words on one young girl who was new to Buddhism, who said something like "when I was a Buddhist, no one listened, but when I was a Buddha they liked me."

Well, maybe so, but trying to act like a Buddha can be pretty demanding......😀.....if not impossible.

One of the reasons that I like Thomas Merton is that he was rarely, if ever, didactic. He wrote as he saw it and left it up to you. In a letter written to an Indian lady he said:-

I hate proselytizing. This awful buisness of making others just like oneself so that one is thereby "justified" and under no obligation to change himself. What a terrible thing this can be. The source of how many sicknesses in the world. The true Christian apostolate is nothing of this sort, a fact that Christians themselves have largely forgotten. I think it was......Tauler (or maybe Eckhart) who said in a sermon that even if the church were empty he would preach the sermon to the four walls because he had to. That is the true apostolic spirit, based not on the desire to make others conform, but in the desire to proclaim and announce the good tidings of God's infinite love. In this context the preacher is not a "converter" but merely a herald, a voice, and the Spirit of the Lord is left free to act as He pleases. But this has degenerated into a doctrine and fashion of "convert-makers" in which man exerts pressure and techniques (this awful business of "modern techniques of propaganda") upon his fellow man in order to make him, force him, bring him under a kind of charm that compels him to abandon his own integrity and his own freedom and yield to another man or another institution. Little do men realize that in such a situation the Holy Spirit is silent and inactive, or perhaps active against the insolence of man. Hence the multitude of honest and sincere men who "cannot accept" a message that is preached without respect for the Spirit of God or for the spirit of man.

(I just wish the guy had been a bit more PC.......😀)

But whatever, Merton explained his attitude elsewhere, in a Preface to one collection of his writings:-

I have tried to learn in my writing a monastic lesson I could probably have not learned otherwise: to let go of my idea of myself, to take myself with more than one grain of salt................In religious terms, this is simply a matter of accepting life, and everything in life as a gift, and clinging to none of it, as far as you are able. You give some of it to others, if you can. Yet one should be able to share things with others without bothering too much about how they like it, either, or how they accept it. Assume they will accept it, if they need it. And if they don't need it, why should they accept it? That is their business. Let me accept what is mine and give them all their share, and go my way.

But, as for the vulture evangelists, who - however they try to hide it - always imply that eternal torment (or at least the gnashing of teeth) awaits anyone who rejects their message........well, I would not want any of them to come within 10 miles of my grandchildren.


What do others think?
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hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
In Christianity we are charged by Christ Himself "To go into all nations and make disciples baptizing them in the Name of the Father and the Son and Tho Holy Spirit." That however is not making them into mini mes It is introducing them to Jesus Himself and let them grow as He teaches. While I am to stand with the young Christian and offer advice I am not his primary teacher.
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@SW-User I am pointing out the hate in you. I don't hate you any more than I know you. You posted a hateful article and continue to defend it. Sucks to be a hater like you.
SW-User
@hippyjoe1955 Please quote the words of my "hateful" article. I was disagreeing with a particular brand of theology. Such is not hate.

GOOD GRIEF! Are you self-proclaimed "true christians" the only ones who can justly claim to love the sinner but hate the sin?

(Said with a smile........)

😀


All the best.
SW-User
@hippyjoe1955 Hello again Joe!

Looking back I can find only my own understanding of what is often called "Protestant Reform Theology".

To quote:-

Hi, I have to say that my experience with many evangelicals of the Christian tradition is that they seek to spread what can only be called "Jesusainity". This is not Christianity in its full depth, but a modernism derived from - and since - the Protestant Reformation, with its creed of sola scriptura and the subsequent splintering of Christianity into diverse sects all claiming to be the "true christians". Thus, in effect, putting their trust in believing correctly rather than in Grace/Christ. A creed of "works".

Although I have used other words in subsequent posts, they were no more "hateful", certainly not in my intent.

You have simply implied my "ignorance" without explaining further. Then spoken of my "ignorance", again without any details as such.

This, in my opinion is not "hate" in any way, shape or form. I simply find, from my own reading of the various theologies that can be found in the whole Christian Faith, that there are better theologies than that found in the Protestant Reform Tradition.

We have had a discussion. There has been no hate.

I am sorry that you insist upon seeing it that way.

All the best.

(I will not respond to you again on this subject)
Yes Proselytizing is fine too a point
That point is
consent
The moment when a person says
Stop
I do not want this !

Proselytizing, is also assuming
A superior state
“We are better than you
God loves us best”
Thus can be bigotry

Thoughts?
specman · 51-55, MVIP
@SatyrService I think God loves everyone but hates the sins that we commit.
@specman I admire that position I wish more Christians believed this and practiced that kind of acceptance
specman · 51-55, MVIP
@SatyrService I find it hard to do. I have been trying though but I keep stumbling but I continue to try to recover from the stumbling block.
In my faith tradition, proselytizing is discouraged, but not forbidden.

A simple reason.

Our character is the greatest evangelism. More so than our words.
@FullMetalFatPig Exactly, too many hypocrites refuse to walk their talk.
SW-User
Well, for anyone interested, the OP now published as a Blog here:-

https://mydookiepops.blogspot.com/

Complete with glorious pictures drawn from Google Images.
zonavar68 · 56-60, M
Had Jehovah's at my door on Saturday. Nice people but very pushy about their brand of religion
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
Well this group is better than starting a war in the atheism group! 🤣👏
RedBaron · M
TLDR.

I think you need to be more concise and learn to “tell it in a nutshell.”
It would be better to let folk find out about the wrapping and gnashing of teeth themselves?

 
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