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Does mankind need a creator God to expain mankind's existence?

Where do we come from ultimately?

I mean by ultimately is that we come from our parents and our parents come from their parents and on and on and on.

But there was a time when there was no life in the world, so we have now one phase of the world where there was no life yet.

Still going farther into the past, there was a time when there were no material things.

So, we finally come to what I call the ultimate reality, which is God the creator and operator of all things that are not God Himself.

What do you everyone say, do you now know what is the meaning of the word, ultimately?

Or there be some of mankind who claim that ultimately there is no God, but everything came from nothingness.

That is just plain absurd, for there is no such being as nothingness, but there is only ultimately God, the creator and operator of everything that is not God Himself.

Are there members of mankind who claim that ultimately God is not needed at all, so I ask them, what then is the ultimately origin of mankind?

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LeopoldBloom · M

Evolution through natural selection, no god needed.

What is God’s origin?

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LeopoldBloom · M

@Curiosity13 The only scientists who say that are theists like Hans Behe and fake scientists like Ken Hovind. The evolution of the eye happened over time, it's not like a fully formed eye suddenly appeared. Natural selection explains this very well.

The problem with saying "goddidit" is either the special pleading you're engaged in ("god is eternal, no proof required") or the fact that you can't explain the mechanism whereby a disembodied intelligence can affect material reality. Therefore, goddidit isn't a scientific explanation, but a mythological one.

DocSavage · M

@Curiosity13
Actually, scientists know from other animal, pretty much everything there is to know about the eye. Humans aren’t the only creatures that have them.

CorvusBlackthorne · M

@Curiosity13

...the odds against even the human eye evolving on its own simply through "natural selection" is basically impossible...

[media=https://youtu.be/qrKZBh8BL_U]

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

join in the discussion

What discussion?

You rant abut nothing in particular.

Then you ignore everyone's responses. Then you add further incoherent comments. Then you start new threads to conceal the incoherence of your previous comments.

Then you run away and start the whole charade all over again.

Discussion!!?? Joke!

redredred · M

“ So, we finally come to what I call the ultimate reality, which is God the creator and operator of all things that are not God Himself.”

This is a totally unsupported contention without a basis is fact or in logic. No rational development has been presented to lead to this conclusion. It is specious and mere conjecture.

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

Since you're always so rude as to post every comment as the start of anew thread, why should I (or anyone) give you the courtesy of using the 'reply' button.

So from now every comment I make will start a new thread

so I ask you, what then is the ultimate origin of your god?

redredred · M

I don’t. The god myths explain nothing since none of the myths explain the god itself. It’s just kicking the can down the road.

View 1 more replies »

redredred · M

@Convivial The nature if god is painfully obvious cause fully knowable ; it’s a silly Bronze Age myth

Convivial · 26-30, F

@redredred that was sarcasm ....

redredred · M

Sorry, the fraudsters are persistent.@Convivial

yrger · 80-89, M

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[@Convivial] [@BiasForAction]

Hi everyone, the list above is my invitation to you all to join in the discussion. If you are not happy with it, then you can opt to not receive any notification, by cancelling the notification feature.
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[@BiasForAction]

Here is an exercise in using our reason and intelligence:

There is the reality of existence of all kinds of beings in existence, can it occur that all kinds of existence go into extinction i.e. nothingness?

My answer is "No, not all kinds of beings can go into extinction i.e. into nothingness.

What about you all guys who have reason and intelligence, what is your answer?[/quote]

BiasForAction · M

All theories about the beginning seem absurd including that of a God—who somehow always existed? Hmmmm.

I don’t know if there is or is not a god or multiple gods. I don’t see evidence. And I think it odd that God wants everyone to have faith instead of the alternative-/making his or her or their presence obvious.

LeopoldBloom · M

@yrger The only thing preventing your God from going into nothingness is your claim that he can't. But that raises an interesting question - is your God omnipotent if he can't annihilate himself?

DocSavage · M

[@yrgerbraininass
A lot of things go into extinction, replaced by the following generations
That’s evolution. Nothing needs to be permanent.

yrger · 80-89, M

@DocSavage @newjaninev2 @BibleData @Emosaur @LeopoldBloom @HollyW @BibleData @Thodsis @SW-User @deadgerbil @Dshhh @HeidiA @ImperialAerosolKidFromEP @lacrossegirl25 @Rhode57

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@LeopoldBloom

LeopoldBloom · M

Evolution through natural selection, no god needed.

What is God’s origin?

Evolution is a process, a process needs a processor, so you have not done away with God, the ultimately creator and processor of all things that are not God Himself.

What is the origin of God?
God is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient in nature.

If you have another ultimaely source of everything that is not itself, let me know, okay?

DocSavage · M

@yrgerbraininass

Evolution is a process, a process needs a processor, so you have not done away with God, the ultimately creator and processor of all things that are not God Himself.

Not true, you just need the ingredients, they can be produced naturally
Once they are together, the process can begin and continue indefinitely and independent of intent .
The necessary organic chemicals, proceed by the environment, forming amino acids and peptides, proteins, Self replicating RNA , charged by lingering radiation. I can see it working. As by product, not by design.

ElwoodBlues · M

Nope. Evolution explains the origin of mankind.

Since I expect you to ask this next, there are a number of theories to explain the origin of life on Earth; we're waiting for more data. Here's a good one: https://news.uchicago.edu/explainer/origin-life-earth-explained

The universe originated about 13.7 billion years ago in the "big bang." What caused the big bang? Still a mystery. If you like, you can name the cause of the big bang "God." But remember, it's pointless to pray to the cause of the big bang, no moral guidance or precepts are offered by the the cause of the big bang, no interventions into life on Earth, no afterlife - just a one-and-done big bang. Still, you can name that "God" if you like.

yrger · 80-89, M

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[@HollyW] [@TheoreticSkeptic] [@Thodsis] [@Mithraia] [@deadgerbil] [@Dshhh]
[@HeidiA] [@ImperialAerosolKidFromEP] [@lacrossegirl25] [@Rhode57] [@ElwoodBlues]
[@Convivial] [@DocSavage] [@newjaninev2] [@TheoreticSkeptic] [@Emosaur] [@LeopoldBloom]
[@HollyW] [@TheoreticSkeptic] [@Thodsis] [@Mithraia] [@deadgerbil] [@Dshhh]
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[@DocSavage]

You are in a dream of infinite regress, wake up, it does not exist except in your dream.

God is the permanent self-existent spirit creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient in nature which also created.

Look up the word self-existent in dictionaries.

DocSavage · M
You keep saying that we came from nothing. So did your god.
He may be self existing, but there had to be a point before he existed, then when he existed , and begun creation. Ultimately.
So nothing is in fact the default state of existence. So it’s a question who or what existed first. Did your god pop into existence out of nothing, and then started creation, or was there already something there waiting for him to get things moving ?
You need to be more clear on what ultimately means.

DocSavage · M

You keep saying that we came from nothing. So did your god.
He may be self existing, but there had to be a point before he existed, then when he existed , and begun creation. Ultimately.
So nothing is in fact the default state of existence. So it’s a question who or what existed first. Did your god pop into existence out of nothing, and then started creation, or was there already something there waiting for him to get things moving ?
You need to be more clear on what ultimately means.

Abstraction · 61-69, M

I don't believe in God because I required an explanation for the origins of the universe.

I believe in God because it's a question I asked and found answers to - although I was open to any answer as I only wanted to know what is real. I try to maintain that honesty as I look at life, the universe and everything. I think it's so easy to go down the path of confirmation bias and dismissal of counter-views. We all wrestle with that, but what does that mean? It means we're afraid of the truth.

yrger · 80-89, M

@DocSavage @newjaninev2 @BibleData @Emosaur @LeopoldBloom
@HollyW @BibleData @Thodsis @SW-User @deadgerbil @Dshhh
@HeidiA @ImperialAerosolKidFromEP @lacrossegirl25 @Rhode57 @ElwoodBlues

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@ElwoodBlues

You say: "The universe originated about 13.7 billion years ago in the "big bang."

There, the universe has a beginning (originated), so it ultimately needs God to bring it into existence.

ElwoodBlues · M

Nope. Evolution explains the origin of mankind.

Since I expect you to ask this next, there are a number of theories to explain the origin of life on Earth; we're waiting for more data. Here's a good one: https://news.uchicago.edu/explainer/origin-life-earth-explained

The universe originated about 13.7 billion years ago in the "big bang." What caused the big bang? Still a mystery. If you like, you can name the cause of the big bang "God." But remember, it's pointless to pray to the cause of the big bang, no moral guidance or precepts are offered by the the cause of the big bang, no interventions into life on Earth, no afterlife - just a one-and-done big bang. Still, you can name that "God" if you like . . . etc.

LeopoldBloom · M

@yrger The beginning of the universe, but not necessarily the beginning of everything. It's possible that what gave rise to the universe was a purely natural process, not needing a disembodied God. If you're going to propose goddidit, you need to explain how a disembodied intellect can affect material reality.

Convivial · 26-30, F

... And the computer, diffused throughout the nothingness of the universe, finally knew the answer to the question it had been asked over and over by each civilisation it had encountered... The last question it had ever been asked, can entropy be reversed... And it knew and it acted, and it said ... Let there be light...

LeopoldBloom · M

@Convivial Isaac Asimov, "The Last Question."

Convivial · 26-30, F

@LeopoldBloom yup...i love that story and i was wondering if anyone would pick it up....🤗

yrger · 80-89, M

@DocSavage @newjaninev2 @BibleData @Emosaur @LeopoldBloom
@HollyW @BibleData @Thodsis @SW-User @deadgerbil @Dshhh
@HeidiA @ImperialAerosolKidFromEP @lacrossegirl25 @Rhode57 @ElwoodBlues
@Convivial @DocSavage @newjaninev2 @BibleData [@Emosaur] [@LeopoldBloom]
[@HollyW] [@TheoreticSkeptic] [@Thodsis] [@Mithraia] [@deadgerbil] [@Dshhh]
[@HeidiA] [@ImperialAerosolKidFromEP] [@lacrossegirl25] [@Rhode57] [@ElwoodBlues]
[@Convivial] [@DocSavage] [@newjaninev2] [@TheoreticSkeptic] [@Emosaur] [@LeopoldBloom]
[@HollyW] [@TheoreticSkeptic] [@Thodsis] [@Mithraia] [@deadgerbil] [@Dshhh]
[@HeidiA] [@ImperialAerosolKidFromEP] [@lacrossegirl25] [@Rhode57] [@ElwoodBlues]
[@Convivial] [@BiasForAction] [@Abstraction] [@mcane] [@etc]

Hi everyone, the list above is my invitation to you all to join in the discussion. If you are not happy with it, then you can opt to not receive any notification, by cancelling the notification feature.
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Hi everyone above listed and also not listed, tell me in 50 words or less what is your alternative to God for the explanation of mankind ultimately?

Title of my thread: