What does it mean when your 'loving' spouse is more rude and disrespectful to you than he is to perfect strangers?

@Northwest I think you're right. I think your comment made me cry in three places which lets me know it's probably right; at least something still hurts. Sometimes I think I could stand it if I knew it was good for my children. They love him, he's good to them.

Everytime I talk to my mom she says the same thing: "He works so hard Nikki. So many of your friends are married to men who can't or wont work, who go out and drink, who are irresponsible and here you are crying about a hard working, father who loves you and his kids."

@Angelfire21
I really hate it, when someone says that. No man deserves a parade, for doing what they are SUPPOSED to be doing.

Hey, look at me, I did not go out tonight to a strip bar. Why aren't you throwing me a parade?


It's good that your children love him. They should have a relationship with their father. Making you the bad guy should not be part of the equation. You said you have a good job. Get a counselor, and work out both your feelings AND a plan. Interview counselors, and don't go for someone who prioritizes "he's a good provider" over the entire relationship. A marriage/partnership is about you, him, the kids and mutual respect is, at a minimum, the basis for anything moving forward.

@Northwest I have to disagree - the kids are keen observers and the see how the father treat their mom. the are learning all the wrong lessons and will later repeat that with their gf's and wife's. she is doing them no favors by staying - unless you want to create more monsters like her husband?

@Northwest This is excellent advice. And from a real man. I want her to read this and to realize these truths.

@newbie
Are you commenting on my post?

@newbie The children cannot be separated from their father. He has the right to visit them if she divorces him. But they are learning in the home of their parents to mistreat their mother. If living apart, they will learn what is and isn't correct. They will model good behaviour. Their mother's behaviour will rule. Northwest is right.

@PoetryNEmotion if she just accepts his behavior and meanness they will learn from him - it's already happening (as she told in another post). the son is starting to reflect and learn from his main role model - it's becoming normalized. my point is not that the father can not see the children after they separate (how did you read that in my post?). it is that if she just accepts being treated this way including the sexual infidelity - it will create an expectation to the man/woman relationship that the son will impose on his gfs and wife (victims) later!

if they can't learn healthy behavior from the father it leaves the mom with a double responsibility!

@newbie I think you should re-read both my post and PoetryNEmotion

@newbie I have already said what you said in your first paragraph in her posting. I am not disagreeing.

@PoetryNEmotion thanks for clarifying - i also read your supporting post regarding the son's reaction to his mom crying that way! 😊

@Northwest i agree with most of your posts wholeheartedly, except about the point of him resenting her (awfully close to victim/self blaming, which is really not fair under the circumstances!), and the one with celebrating how good a father the husband is to the kids - I think he is a terrible role model, and his beahvior is not what a good father does (fornicate with other women, demean their mother, being rude and absent etc etc). 😰

@newbie I don't think Northwest was saying the resentment was justified, nor celebrating how he is as father: the fact that he's a terrible role model (let's be honest, he's an ahole) for his kids and the fact that the kids love him are not mutually exclusive.

Having seen this in my job, I do feel Angelfire needs to leave him, so that the kids no longer see this unhealthy modeling, but yet they retain some sort of positive relationship with him, as that's best for them in the long run, despite his many shortcomings.

@Angelfire: His behavior is not going to change. He sounds like a BPD and possibly a narcissist. The fact that he has a connection with your kids does not mean he is doing well as a father. The best thing you can do for yourself and your kids is to leave him. What they are seeing now is unhealthy.

@luckranger71 I completely agree with your points! i don't think i could have said it more precise 🤗

@newbie Thank you. I’ve been accused of being wordy. 😁. I hope AF keeps reaching out: when one is in that situation the nastiness of the other person can give someone a skewed picture of themselves. Controlling behavior. Hopefully people here and IRL can show her it’s ALL on him.

@Angelfire21 why do you make excuses for him? He’s lying to his kids and to his wife about cheating that’s NOT being a good father. He accuses you and throws blame at you. I believe he’s nice and loving to his kids but he’s going behind their back too with lying and cheating. And don’t think he won’t lie to them when it comes out telling them you are the lier and he’s not cheating. I know it sucks I’ve been there but at some point you have to do what is right. It’s not right to let him get away with cheating and treating you with disrespect and stay for the kids sake while you are not happy. Nobody wants to ruin their kids lives but remember you didn’t, he did and is. Get some counseling on you own. It can help you tremendously and help you take action to stop the abuse for your sake and your kids.

@luckranger71 exactly - that's why i didnt think any feedback to her should NOT start with what the husband might dislike about her as point 1! so many women fall into the trap of trying to fix the relationship by trying to fix themselves. Trying to turn him not impatient with her, trying to turn his resent into love - that way they just build on their own insecurity and self-blame! no one is perfect but the overriding point in her relationship is how the husband behaves in a way that should not be accepted!

@newbie
Wow!! Stating that someone is resentful, is a statement of the problem. That's not victim blaming.

As to what I said about the kids:

@Northwest please read the posts above that clarifies what i meant, and why i thought it to be unfair and unhelpful to start a list with item 1 being what the husband might dislike about her - even if you (obviously - i hope) dont agree with them!

Let's keep this constructive. Foxfire needs input not arguing. Thanks, folks.

agree @PoetryNEmotion - she needs support emotionally and with constructive advice - she doesnt need more mansplaning ...

Well, I went away for a day and came back to find this discussion. I don't have a @ for anyone in specific because I read all of these comments carefully and they DO help. I know it sounds insane, I have been told I seem intelligent before, but sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees.

Sometimes I forget that I'm not the problem, or I believe that I can fix it on my own by being better/more attractive/more attentive/less attentive etc. I push myself so hard sometimes and I'm starting to feel like a jester performing for a spoiled prince. I feel like I've made a fool of myself for this marriage and lost my self respect and all the while I have told myself that it's because I am protecting my children.

And you know the saddest part? My husband is not very close with his mother because she was married to an abusive man for a long time. His step father was physically abusive and a drunk and he grew up in a violent home. His mother would fight, suffer and then kick the father out and then LET HIM COME back a few weeks/months later. My husband grew very much to resent his mother for allowing this horrible man to come back again and again and when he finally confronted her and asked her WHY she did it? His mother said, "he's your father, I thought you loved him."

And all the while, this boy grew to a man with all this hate in his heart because of what his mother had done trying to do the right thing.

If you don't see how this should enlighten me, then I haven't told the story well enough but the point is... when he and I fought the other night, I had an epiphany in the midst of the emotional drama and I told him about it right then. I told him that he was making me into his mother.

He, of course, laughed and minimized his crimes saying that he'd never hurt us and never would and that his father was a violent monster and to compare was me being "crazy". He's right that he is not as bad as his father, but I meant that he was making me into his mother in that one day my son will be a man who comes to me and asks why I stayed with him all those years when he was such a bastard... and i'll be another mother saying, "he's your father, I thought you loved him."

I understand now. I know this is just a website, but each comment here represents a person who reached out from their own world to touch mine and I have clarity that I've never had before with all of your help. I appreciate the debate, I appreciate the thoughtfulness put into these messages and I appreciate the messages and PM's I have received from all of you offering a shoulder. We're strangers and I appreciate all of you so much, more than my vocabulary can express.

I'm making arrangements for daycare and looking for an apartment near my sons school. It hurts in every way because I love this man. I know that also sounds crazy but like most situations, he's not horrible 24 hours a day. We have laughs together, we have shared a lot of memories and I don't know what it will even feel like to have him not sleeping next to me but I can't do this forever and you're right... I'm not protecting my children by providing them this weak example of masculinity.

Pray or.. send good vibes or think good thoughts for me. Whatever it is that you do when someone needs fortification, do that for me. I'm going to need it. <3

@Angelfire21
The biggest mistake people, in relationships, make, is believing they can change someone. Some people can change, but only if they want to.

The second mistake, is for your to think that there's something wrong with you. His justifications do not mean that you're at fault, but you cannot control his behavior, you just need to learn how to ignore it, and manage it, when it comes to other parties, such as the kids.

It's not surprising that your husband is behaving the same way as his father/step-father did. He's mirroring what he saw at him. He's not turning you into his mother, he, subconsciously, thinks this is what women are for. This is why you need to get your kids out of this situation, before it's too late.

Unless he's physically abusing you or the kids, and this does not seem the case, you also need to accept the reality of the situation: the court is going to allow him time with the kids, and you need to make sure that this time is spent in a positive way, as in time spent with their father, doing things that they enjoy, as opposed to being time spent listening to their father complain about you. Your counselor should be able to help you with that.

Good luck to you, what you're going through is not going to be easy. I've been there, and so have a few people who responded, and may be divorced with kids.

@Angelfire21 so happy that you can use the input from your online friends! we are all cheering for you and hoping for the best. 🤗

now you also know why he is so attracted to the older co-worked whom you describe as not attractive in a conventional way. As you are not living up to his image of a wife (someone that's there for the scorn and abuse of the husband) - he is seeking to reconnect with his mother using that older coworker as the substitute! 😲

@Angelfire21 I am so proud of you. You are doing what is right for you and your children. You are finally coming to the realization that this cannot be fixed. I used to think the same way you did. It was my fault-NOT. I could change how he behaved-NOT. I didn't want to have my son be raised without his father. It won't be easy. It will be severe. It will be easy sometimes. You will think-should I have stayed. But you will find that it gets easier one day, one night, one step at a time. And all the bad times will be distant memories one day. And your children will understand what a wonderful mom they have. And you will be so happy. And, in time, when it is right, you will find a greater, stronger, better love. You deserve love. And you know this. Let's all support this young woman in her journey. Come back here when you need us. We shall still be here, rooting for you, celebrating with you, recognizing your courage and your love and your beauty. You can do this. I know it.

@Northwest A sensitive, intelligent reply.