Do you believe in scientists?

@MalteseFalconPunch My own recent studies in political science included reading such books as 1984, Animal Farm, A Brave New World, The Art of War, etc, and so forth..

I can certainly understand that science is real, and is used in many real world applications.

@MougyWolf You recent study in political science? Consists out of readin utopian fiction? And Sun-Tsu? wtf mougy

@Kwek00 *distopian, because you know, misery

@MougyWolf You want to read a really messed up criticism of society, wrapped up in a science fiction jacket? Read "Dune", "Dune: Messiah", "Children of Dune" and "God Emperor of Dune". ... I've not read beyond that, but the guy that wrote it really did his homework reading books on politics, philosophy, religion and ecology.

I however... wouldn't label it a study in political science.

Oh... And why stop at "Brave New World"... why not read "Island" and maybe "Grey Eminence: A Study in Religion and Politics" . Also by Huxley.

@Kwek00 I heard about these books, i might just do that, read them, I mean. 🥴

@MougyWolf I've read Dune twice now... but, it's a lot better with the 2 books that follow it. And well, "God Emperor of Dune" is kinda mindblowing in what it tries to achieve. But the first trilogy is really good too if you want to ponder on things. But again... I wouldn't list it as political science.

@Kwek00 well, nor would I think they should have been used for blue prints, but here we are, stuck in the middle of the culmination of the worst political concepts ever.

@MougyWolf I don't really get what concepts you are pointing at right now. And the books you mentioned, were criticisms of certain concepts that the authors had issues with and extrapolated to a degree that it reaches a dramatic conclussion.

I find it more fascinating that there are people that support what some of these books criticise and still use the book as a form to criticise their opposition.

@Kwek00 Ok, as example taken from Orwell's 1984, with the "thought police" and "acceptable language".

I would be hard pressed to deny that this is indeed happening right now on social media and the news.

The left are screaming Orange Man Nazi, all while simultaneously trying out fascism for themselves.


Another example to reference is the parallels of Huxley's depiction of "Soma", and these new, bio tech mRNA vaccine roll outs, for the sake of making us all.. healthy, and happy.

Animal Farm, in which one ruthless ruler is rebelled against, replaced, only for the poor animals to realize their new ruler is worse.

The Art of War, a comprehensive guide to destroying your enemy, through, cold, calculated brutality, and by any means necessary, a good read that one, in realizing that evil is truly the only true power that ever prevails here on Earth.

I mean, grant it, these books cited don't exactly blatantly spell out covid19 Chinese overtake of the world, but it's like... in hindsight, you can see where the most evil people in the world get their inspiration from. Please tell me this makes at least SOME sense to you, and worth my taking the time to mention.

@MougyWolf Your first example is a bit of a stretch according to myself. But give 1 or 2 specific examples where you think this is applicable and we can talk about.

I agree on the soma thing.

Animal farm is a criticism on the soviet union. It's a fable retelling the early days, the death of lenin and the power struggle between Stalin and Trotsky. Eventually the corruption of those in power and constricting regime it creates to keep the corrupt in power. I don't really see that going on as being a trend. I do fear for countries like Poland, Hungary and the United States tough, but that has nothing to do with Animal Farm.

I'm not sure what version of Sun-Tszu you have. But in my version there is a foreword about [i](hopefully)[/i] the original author [i](because there is some discussion about that)[/i]. Where a lord asks the general if he's able to turn his harem into soldiers. And the general said that everyone can be turned into soldiers. So the lord asks the general too show him by example. So the general get the women, and on the first day of training some of the women giggled and disobeyed the general while the lord was laughing. The general gives them a warning. But one of the woman made another joke... so the general chops off her head without warning. The lord first objects, but the general answered that he was given these women for training and if they can't be serious as soldiers, they will endanger their own lifes and those whome are fighting next to them. The point is that the women were trained and that they create a batallion, not because of "good" or "evil" but because war is hard and so has to be the once fighting it. If you are looking for morality on the battleground, you'll just loose. In that way, the guy who wrote that work was a realist, just like Machiavelli who wrote: [i]How we live is so different from how we ought to live that he who studies what ought to be done rather than what is done will learn the way to his downfall rather than to his preservation.[/i] You might not agree, but it wins wars, and that's what that book is about.

I don't understand your china take over the world part... Sun-Tszu has been read by so manny people, and it has a lot of lessons in there that should be logical. Like reussing your opponents weapons, taking the high ground, ... etc. It's just a guideline that you can use in strategy, most of it is war related some of it can be used in the business world. It's all about winning battles. And it doesn't define your morality persé, it all depends on how you use these ideas and how much of a realist you want to be. In Sun-Tszu, it's mentioned that wars need to be avoided but if you have one you better win. And if you ever going to read the Prince, by machiavelli... which is, well, way more damning then the art of war. It was actually written to embaress the leaders of his time. Machiavelli doesn't push for these tactics to be used, but he's aware that if you are in the political field, that if someone else is using them and you are not, that you are on the backfood to reach your goal... which is getting political power.

@MougyWolf I honestly thought you would give me an example of the thought police... because I find that an intresting argument that I hear a lot from people. But honestly, I think that idea just doesn't work. But if you don't want go go into it, that's okay too.