I Have Something to Say

@Lynda70 I’ll write an essay in reply another day! But in answer to your last sentence, Covid vaccines months earlier than anyone else in Europe,, and the ability to elect governments whose policies are constrained only by Parliament, not by the unelected EU.

@MartinII I voted to elect an MEP. Did you miss the election?

Bear in mind, if we want to trade with the EU we'll still have to meet their standards and follow their rules, the only difference is that we'll no longer have any say in making them.

@Lynda70 As you know, the European Parliament has very limited powers. The Council of Ministers is not elected, except that its members are from elected national governments. And the Council and the Commission object vociferously whenever a member state elects a government they don’t like.

As I say, I’ll leave the rest for another day if you don’t mind. 😊

@Lynda70 what benefits have we gained.... none.... absolutely none on any level.... rhe list of what we have lost goes on and on.....

@Justme264 I think so too but some people claim there are benefits although they seem unable to say what they are. The earlier roll out of the COVID vaccine is a possibility - unless we were just being used as test subjects.

@Lynda70 agreed but Hungary rolled out a vaccine just as easly and quickly... regrettably it was Russian vaccine.... however, that is not the point.
All we needed to do was stay in the EU, and break the rules... like France & Germany always did for their own benefit and still do. Where is Germany still buying its gas from... in spite of EU rules and sanctions??

Anyway...... moving on.....

@Justme264 The EU provided a useful scapegoat for whenever the Government wanted to do something that was likely to prove unpopular. Now they try to blame COVID or the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

@Justme264 Though you don’t mention anything that is on this alleged list!

@MartinII Apart from using us as guinea pigs to test COVID vaccines, what has Brexit ever done for the ordinary person in the street?

@Lynda70 Given democracy back to us for a start!

@MartinII What real power do you have now that you didn't gave when we were members of the EU? I didn't vote for the Conservatives but the still got it. I didn't vote to leave the EU either but we left anyway. I had just as much say in how the country was run when we were in the EU.

@Lynda70 The point is that the people we elect can do what they want to, subject to parliamentary approval, without being constrained by Brussels. For instance, there’s talk of repealing or amending the legislation which implements the working time directive. That would have been impossible while we were in the EU, but it is possible now, subject to any constraints imposed by the Brexit agreement. Of course, you may well think that would be a bad idea. In that case, you can vote at the next election for a party which takes your view.

As to the general thrust of your comment, everyone has the same power. Unfortunately we are all sometimes in the minority rather than the majority. That’s democracy for you!

@MartinII [quote]The point is that the people we elect can do what they want to, subject to parliamentary approval, without being constrained by Brussels.[/quote]

The people we elect to Local Council, the UK Parliament and (formerly) the European Parliament, have always been able to do want they want within certain limits. The only thing that has changed in that respect is that we now have no influence over Brussels. We'll still have to obey the EU's if we want to trade with the EU though. We've also put ourselves in a much weaker negotiating position when it comes to trading with other countries, we'll have to be rule takers now.

We're now just an insignificant little island with no real influence anywhere in the world. The UK is a sham, with customs controls between different parts of it, expertly negotiated by Johnson. Scotland will almost certainly gain independence and join the EU in its own right. England and Wales will be left floundering, unless Wales gains independence too. England will be out on its own, probably as a rogue state.

@Lynda70 I’m sorry, I completely disagree with this! We have never had much influence over Brussels. But now we don’t need any, except as you say in relation to trade with the EU. Our domestic policies, and our relations with the rest of the world, are our own affair. Events since Brexit have demonstrated spectacularly that our influence in the world has nothing to do with membership of the EU. We have led Europe over Ukraine (whether wisely, I’m not sure). We remain a nuclear power and a permanent member of the Security Council. Nobody outside Europe has the least interest in the EU. I very much doubt that Scotland will become independent, much as I wish ot would, and if it did I see no possibility of its meeting the criteria for EU membership.

@MartinII I apologise forxefging to differ... I have seen the,damage Brexit has done to the financial services industry in whixh I worked.... and now Rees-Mogg talks of dismantling Solvency II... reallee!?

Has he even read and understood it and understood the gistory of what it was based on?

And now UK residents are once more exposed to usuruousxmobile phone chargesxwhilst travelling.... which the EU putca stop to.

Ideology is fine... but in the Brexit context it has caused disaster in practical terms to us Brits .....

@MartinII You're free to disagree, just as I am with you. Maybe you're one of the few, like Rees-Mogg, Farage, etc. who has personally benefitted from Brexit but it's been a disaster for the vast majority of us

Many people were deceived into voting for Brexit to "keep the furringers out". They didn't understand that other EU countries could do the same so UK nationals who have retired to Spain and France can also be sent back home to the UK. The Government is now desperately trying to recruit people from overseas to solve the labour shortage, after telling them we didn't want them here. Before Brexit, young Eastern European students used to come here to work on the fields during summer. We all, they and we, benefitted from that arrangement. Over the last couple of years, tonnes of food has had to be left to rot in the fields becuse there was no one to harvest it.

Many UK companies have lost contracts because trading with EU countries is no longer viable. Many EU companies are no longer willing to trade with UK companies for the same reason. It's true we're free to try to negotiate trade deals with other countries but we don't have a strong negotiating position like the EU does.

It's the young I really feel sorry for. The older people who voted for this disaster have only themselves to blame. The ones who are really going to suffer from it are the younger generation, many of whom were too young to vote. We haven't seen the worst of Brexit yet.

@Lynda70 Thanks for that. I haven’t benefited in a personal sense from Brexit - I’m not sure anyone has. Without going into details, I agree that some individuals and companies with close connexions to EU countries have suffered. But all that is beside the point, to my mind. The main reason why people repeatedly voted for Brexit, and why it will in my view be a good thing, is political, not economic.

Anyway, perhaps we’ve taken this as far as we can. The Queen’s death rather overwhelms everything else at the moment. Good to be anle to debate in a civilised manner.