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Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@joe438 I'm sorry Joe, but history will proof you wrong on this one. I think future historians are going to be fairly mild when it comes to their criticisms and pretty positive if you see how many big bills that were passed through congress in an extremely turbulent political climate. Which is a big difference, then rigging the game by ruling through executive order like the current administration.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@joe438 I'm sorry? The administration created record inflation? Did COVID not happen in your timeline, because a lot of countries had record inflation because of it.
... evidence is needed here. But I understand that if you swallowed the inflation record, you'll swallow the xenophobic rumors too. It all comes served between the same GOP bread bun.
invited in millions of people to drain the social nets the citizens created.
... evidence is needed here. But I understand that if you swallowed the inflation record, you'll swallow the xenophobic rumors too. It all comes served between the same GOP bread bun.
joe438 · 61-69, M
@SunshineGirl I’m not an economist but those were pretty small checks and likely didn’t contribute a lot to inflation. It may not have been the best use of the money though. If the govt had that much cash laying around, it wouldn’t have hurt to paid the debt down instead.
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@joe438 It was part of a $2.2tn stimulus package. It's not a criticism - the alternative would have been recession which is far worse - but just pointing out a major factor. Inflation can indicate that wage growth is healthy and people are spending freely. But it hurts those with no job, or low wages, in economies where wealth is distributed unevenly or social welfare nets are negligible.
joe438 · 61-69, M
@SunshineGirl I do remember that Bill being discussed when it was passed, and the maximum any one person would get is $1200. It’s not that 1200 isn’t real money, but it’s not life-changing. The bill also provided*billions*of dollars to hospitals that got hit hard by the costs related COVID. That certainly seems like money well spent.
I don’t know what the total in payouts with the stimulus checks was. The media at the time was complaining that people weren’t spending the checks, but just putting them back in savings to replace money that they had already spent. It would be fun to run the numbers to see if a noticeable dent could’ve been made in the national debt instead of handing out those checks.
I don’t know what the total in payouts with the stimulus checks was. The media at the time was complaining that people weren’t spending the checks, but just putting them back in savings to replace money that they had already spent. It would be fun to run the numbers to see if a noticeable dent could’ve been made in the national debt instead of handing out those checks.
ElwoodBlues · M
@joe438 The checks were only part of the stimulus package, a mere $293 billion. The total package, the total injected into the economy, was $2.2 trillion. If you're interested, here's a breakdown of where the other $1.9 trillion went.
https://www.crfb.org/blogs/whats-2-trillion-coronavirus-relief-package
https://www.crfb.org/blogs/whats-2-trillion-coronavirus-relief-package
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@joe438 I'm still confused though, because you never got back to me. You said:
1. So... you grant him that Biden passed a number of bills.
I would like to add, that these bills, were pretty big. And that they were passed through the system, with bipartisan support through consensus building in a political climate with an extremely small majority from the democratic side.
One of the most radical, but not smartest people, said that Biden was walking in the footsteps of Franklin D. Roosevelt and Lyndon B. Johnson. Which was so remarkable, that Biden used her speech, for his own advertisment.
[media=https://youtu.be/XbQxQhS6PaM]
The reason why Biden used it, is because if you are a left leaning liberal (liberal used in the sense that it's supposed to be used, not the sense of the smear that figures like Rush Limbaugh popularised in the conservative lexicon) and/or Christian Democrats (used in the sense of the Western European tradition, that uses Rerum Novarum as it's foundation) this is a good thing. You can have ideological issues with it, but this admission, was a huge win for Biden and it shows that the opposition is aware that he's actually doing some really big things here, without having a big majority.
2. You say the administration managed to create record inflation.
What policies did Biden implement that created this huge inflation??? Why blame this administration?
This is where I'll agree, if you are going to mention the idea that Biden continued to ask people to lock down. Because the lockdown, and the restarting of the economy afterwards, did create massive supply chain issues that did create inflation in pretty much every western economy. These lockdowns, started under Donald Trump and were continued under Biden. There is a lot of path dependency here, for both people asked the country to stay home so that the weakest members in society were protected from the consequences of a deadly virus.
However, when @SunshineGirl gives you an example of what Trump did (stimulus checks 2020) that actually has the potential to create inflation. You just wave it away, and say that it's not significant.
And, unlike you, I agree with @SunshineGirl. That in a periode of crisis, where you ask individuals to stay home out of some form of patriotic duty towards your fellow citizens (espescially those with a weak immune system) that the nation as a whole should also support the ones that stay home and often loose their paycheck. Which makes it hard for people to take care of themselves and their family. Now, you can talk about how this policy was implemented. An issue of contention could be the Matthew Effect created by donating money to everyone equally, but this is again an ideoligical discussion. Just know that I'm okay with the basic principle of what Trump did.
And notice, that it's Trump that inniated the lockdown. This didn't start under Biden, and I don't blame Trump for this at all. I blame him for not acting sooner, considering that he knew how bad it was. And we know that he knew, because he's on record because he was whining to a journalist. Because he was more afraid of his reelection as a consequence of the panic that might ensue.
[media=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r4KJMsaD3s]
I also don't think that the Trump administration was ever going to build down debt. During his first 4 years, he did nothing to work on this issue. And in this second administration, he finally raised taxes... on everyone that is depended on cheap import goods through tarrifs. But the economists (from the center right to the far left) all predict that this will be a failure, for it will not make up for the massive tax cuts the highest earners in the U.S.A. got when the "big beautifull bill" was passed.
Tarrifs, FYI, are inherently inflationary, since it drives up the costs for consumers through taxes. And what is the demographic that needs the cheap goods the most? Well, it's your average Wallmart buyer, people that are largely working on low waged jobs and keep their living standard up by having access to cheap products.
But the people that tell you the story that Bidens' presidency created huge inflatiation without ever pointing to what he did to deserve this blame. Are the same people that tell the myth that:
3.
Wich is another story, that is pinned on Biden, internalised by a segment of the public and mimicked around as if it's true. But just like the inflation myth, this xenophobic stereotype that has been used for over a 100 years now, hasn't been proven anywhere. But feel free to provide evidence how Biden actively invited people in... and how these people were draining social nets? Because the people that tell this story over and over again, are really bad at prooving why they are right. But people like yourself, seem to accept it without any objections.
@Kwek00 The Biden administration did pass a number of bills but the administration managed to create record inflation and invited in millions of people to drain the social nets the citizens created. His legacy is one of failure.
1. So... you grant him that Biden passed a number of bills.
I would like to add, that these bills, were pretty big. And that they were passed through the system, with bipartisan support through consensus building in a political climate with an extremely small majority from the democratic side.
One of the most radical, but not smartest people, said that Biden was walking in the footsteps of Franklin D. Roosevelt and Lyndon B. Johnson. Which was so remarkable, that Biden used her speech, for his own advertisment.
[media=https://youtu.be/XbQxQhS6PaM]
The reason why Biden used it, is because if you are a left leaning liberal (liberal used in the sense that it's supposed to be used, not the sense of the smear that figures like Rush Limbaugh popularised in the conservative lexicon) and/or Christian Democrats (used in the sense of the Western European tradition, that uses Rerum Novarum as it's foundation) this is a good thing. You can have ideological issues with it, but this admission, was a huge win for Biden and it shows that the opposition is aware that he's actually doing some really big things here, without having a big majority.
2. You say the administration managed to create record inflation.
What policies did Biden implement that created this huge inflation??? Why blame this administration?
This is where I'll agree, if you are going to mention the idea that Biden continued to ask people to lock down. Because the lockdown, and the restarting of the economy afterwards, did create massive supply chain issues that did create inflation in pretty much every western economy. These lockdowns, started under Donald Trump and were continued under Biden. There is a lot of path dependency here, for both people asked the country to stay home so that the weakest members in society were protected from the consequences of a deadly virus.
However, when @SunshineGirl gives you an example of what Trump did (stimulus checks 2020) that actually has the potential to create inflation. You just wave it away, and say that it's not significant.
@SunshineGirl I’m not an economist but those were pretty small checks and likely didn’t contribute a lot to inflation.
And, unlike you, I agree with @SunshineGirl. That in a periode of crisis, where you ask individuals to stay home out of some form of patriotic duty towards your fellow citizens (espescially those with a weak immune system) that the nation as a whole should also support the ones that stay home and often loose their paycheck. Which makes it hard for people to take care of themselves and their family. Now, you can talk about how this policy was implemented. An issue of contention could be the Matthew Effect created by donating money to everyone equally, but this is again an ideoligical discussion. Just know that I'm okay with the basic principle of what Trump did.
And notice, that it's Trump that inniated the lockdown. This didn't start under Biden, and I don't blame Trump for this at all. I blame him for not acting sooner, considering that he knew how bad it was. And we know that he knew, because he's on record because he was whining to a journalist. Because he was more afraid of his reelection as a consequence of the panic that might ensue.
[media=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r4KJMsaD3s]
I also don't think that the Trump administration was ever going to build down debt. During his first 4 years, he did nothing to work on this issue. And in this second administration, he finally raised taxes... on everyone that is depended on cheap import goods through tarrifs. But the economists (from the center right to the far left) all predict that this will be a failure, for it will not make up for the massive tax cuts the highest earners in the U.S.A. got when the "big beautifull bill" was passed.
Tarrifs, FYI, are inherently inflationary, since it drives up the costs for consumers through taxes. And what is the demographic that needs the cheap goods the most? Well, it's your average Wallmart buyer, people that are largely working on low waged jobs and keep their living standard up by having access to cheap products.
But the people that tell you the story that Bidens' presidency created huge inflatiation without ever pointing to what he did to deserve this blame. Are the same people that tell the myth that:
3.
invited in millions of people to drain the social nets the citizens created
Wich is another story, that is pinned on Biden, internalised by a segment of the public and mimicked around as if it's true. But just like the inflation myth, this xenophobic stereotype that has been used for over a 100 years now, hasn't been proven anywhere. But feel free to provide evidence how Biden actively invited people in... and how these people were draining social nets? Because the people that tell this story over and over again, are really bad at prooving why they are right. But people like yourself, seem to accept it without any objections.