controversial but genuine question

can you name even one truly unselfish reason for having a child? to wit:

- by the very nature of the beast, there is no childish input in the decision
- even at the highest levels of living, there will be major hard scrabble and worrisome moments as the child grows and dies
- many have children as accessories, caregivers, easers of loneliness, entertainment, or cleaners of the home
- the only even-close reason I can think of as roundabout unselfishness is to build a religious army of sorts, but that is mightyyy presumptuous
- how dare parents then say, "I BROUGHT YOU INTO THIS WORLD AND I CAN TAKE YOU OUT" or, "do you know how long i labored to have you"....

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caPnAhab · 26-30, M

If you give everything you have to this kid, then is that not selflessness?

foldedunfolding · 41-45, F

@caPnAhab the acts themselves are selfless, sure..but if their lives are anything as atrocious as mine has been, you are throwing scraps at an entire supercalifragilisticexistentialcrisis

caPnAhab · 26-30, M

@foldedunfolding ah I'm sorry to hear. Life is unfortunate like that sometimes. But perhaps being here in the first place is your opportunity to make something of your own life? Which is a gift in itself.

the secret hides in living that's a lyric to a song I like

foldedunfolding · 41-45, F

@caPnAhab that's an awesome line! and i didnt posit this question as a woe is me diatribe, i promise i didnt! i just..except for the Bible verse where God implores us to be fruitful and multiply to bring Him glory..cant think of a selfless reason for this! if narrow is the way to heaven..that means MOST people go to hell..and i just cant see CHANCING that for a child who had no say in being born, and who will supposedly go to hell if they say nah im out

caPnAhab · 26-30, M

@foldedunfolding no worries! I didn't interpret your post that way.

I thought, like you said, it was a genuine question. I have my own beliefs about where spirits n whatnot come from, but I'm not prepared for a talk like that. And I don't often like to discuss religion and spiritual stuff.

It is an awesome line isn't it 😋 it's by the Deli Creeps
[media=https://youtu.be/z4F-vR_Y0lA]

foldedunfolding · 41-45, F

@caPnAhab https://youtu.be/P-q_2Nk1toQ

caPnAhab · 26-30, M

@foldedunfolding hey, I like this thanks

foldedunfolding · 41-45, F

@caPnAhab my pleasure..lyrics are so relatable

Queendragonfly · 31-35, F

@caPnAhab

If you give everything you have to this kid, then is that not selflessness?

No because you still chose to birth him for your own happiness.

caPnAhab · 26-30, M

@Queendragonfly Well, I'm starting to rethink. Right.. I guess there is no true selfless reason. I don't think it cancels out the reasons I said above.

I thought this question though:

Are we better off or worse off than our previous societies? Imagine living in medieval times where medical practices would make you raise an eyebrow. Maybe this world will always be terrible... but it might also be an improvement?

... debatable, I know

Queendragonfly · 31-35, F

@caPnAhab I think it's improving but environmental wise, we are neglecting our planet.

caPnAhab · 26-30, M

@Queendragonfly yeah agreed. That much is easy to see