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Exploitation and the end of private property

The power created by private property is expressed most clearly in the labor market, where business owners get to decide who deserves a job and who doesn’t, and are able to impose working conditions that, if given a fair alternative, ordinary people would otherwise reject.
Even though workers do most of the actual work at a job, owners have unilateral say over how profits are divided up and don’t compensate employees for all the value they produce. Socialists call this phenomenon exploitation.

Exploitation is not unique to capitalism. It’s around in any class society, and simply means that some people are compelled to labor under the direction of, and for the financial benefit of, others.

Compared to systems of slavery or serfdom, the hardships many workers face today are less obvious. In most countries they have real legal protections and can afford basic necessities - a result of battles won by labor movements and Unions to limit the scope and intensity of exploitation.

But exploitation is only ever mitigated in capitalism, never eliminated. Consider this (admittedly abstract) example: let’s say that you’re getting paid $15 an hour by a business owner in a stable, profitable firm. You’ve been working there five years, and you put in about sixty hours a week.

No matter what your job is like - whether it’s easy or grueling, boring or exciting - one thing is certain: your labor is making more (probably a lot more) than $15 an hour for your boss. That persistent difference between what you produce and what you get back in return is exploitation - a key source of profits and wealth in capitalism.

And, of course, with your paycheck you’re forced to buy all the things necessary for a good life - housing, health care, child care, a college education - which are also commodities, produced by other workers who are not fully remunerated for their efforts either.

Radically changing things would mean taking away the source of capitalists’ power: the private ownership of property.

In a socialist society - even one in which markets are retained in spheres like consumer goods - you and your fellow workers wouldn’t spend your day making others rich. You would keep much more of the value you produced. This could translate into more material comfort, or, alternatively, the possibility of deciding to work less with no loss in compensation so you could go to school or take up a hobby.

This might seem like a pipe dream, but it’s entirely plausible. Workers at all levels of design, production, and delivery know how to make the things society needs - they do it every day. They can run their workplaces collectively, cutting out the middle-men who own private property. Indeed, democratic control over our workplaces and the other institutions that shape our communities is the key to ending exploitation.

That’s the socialist vision: abolishing private ownership of the things we all need and use like factories, banks, offices, natural resources, utilities, communication and transportation infrastructure, etc... and replacing it with social ownership, thereby undercutting the power of elites to hoard wealth and power. And that’s also the ethical appeal of socialism: a world where people don’t try to control others for personal gain, but instead cooperate so that everyone can flourish.

As for personal property, people can keep their houses, tooth brushes, etc...
Zeusdelight · 61-69, M
Exploitation is such an emotive word.

That persistent difference between what you produce and what you get back in return is a combination of many things including, the materials used in production, the costs of maintaining the property, the profit for the business owner etc etc

However, in a fair society, a person on a minimum wage should be able to expect to cover their costs of accommodation and food.

The purpose of minimum wages is to protect workers against unduly low pay. They help ensure a just and equitable share of the fruits of progress to all, and a minimum living wage to all who are employed and in need of such protection.
Gloomy · F
@Zeusdelight Does no one read the post? You must understand the difference between private and personal property.
ViciDraco · 36-40, M
@Zeusdelight personal property are things you own that you make active personal use of. You own your underwear. You own your toothbrush. There is debate about owning a house or land and whether you can own or simply 'rent' those. For those who allow ownership of land it refers to your personal dwelling and what you make productive use of. For example you own the land your house is on and a field of you farm it or a garden if you keep it. But ownership reverts back to public if you stop making productive use of it. So you couldn't accumulate a bunch of land that you used to use and just sit on it as a wealth asset. That doesn't work.
Zeusdelight · 61-69, M
@ViciDraco Thankyou for your explanation. I didn't realise I had gone into a technical discussion and so the terms had layers of meaning that were not clear to me. Your definition has helped me understand that.

So a question, if I may?

Say, I am in a system that allows ownership of land. I own a house under that system. It is used as a home for 4 people. I then buy another house suitable for 4 people and move into it. I do not dispose of the first house.

From what you are saying if I do not have productive use of that first house, it reverts back. How does it revert back?

If I used that first home to allow someone else to live in it, is that a productive use?

Thank you
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
And in your society if I produce more will I have more than others? Because we know that socialism isn't your endgame. Where's the ceiling, how much luxury is present in your world exactly?

And how about those who do not wish to produce at all, what of their exploitation of others?
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SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@Gloomy I don't know, not trying to fight but I kind of step back when someone says that luxury isn't really necessary because life should be about living. I want to enjoy my life. I don't really care about what's necessary or not because true equality for all is a lie so it doesn't do any good from a mental health perspective to dwell on luxury or not luxury.
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@Gloomy That's good, envy will continue.

That sounds like you avoiding the question. You say billionaires "really exploit" people while you take from those same people and give it to layabouts who do even less by doing [b]nothing[/b], no managing, no funding, no producing.
BobbyMoeven · 51-55, M
Although these businesses don't adopt all the structure mentioned in your post , I think this is an example of how employee owned businesses thrive ...and that what you are stating is not such a pipe dream ...

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/insights/051316/6-successful-companies-are-employeeowned.asp
It also takes a lot of skill to run a business. Many business owners have degrees that they wouldn't have gotten if they were going to get paid tge same as everyone else. Doctors lawyers and teachers are all educated. Regular folk just show up to work everyday. Most regular folk aren't educated.
Gloomy · F
@Spoiledbrat [quote]I just think if everyone got paid the same it would reduce the motivation to stand out and do a good job.[/quote]

How often do you plan on making this incorrect assumption?

[quote]In most cases it's a big responsibility. Not just anyone can start and run a successful business.[/quote]

All things that would also work via workers democracy and worker co-ops. Business owners do not provide and fill the significant role you ascribe to them here. They have decision making powers that can easily be abused and just the responsibility argument doesn't cut it at all.
@Gloomy That's because I don't have a degree in business. I can get a business license. Otherwise I don't even have any ideas as far as what kind of business could thrive in my area. I don't have a nack for that or the interest. I know I'm not just going to start a business as successful as Walmart. If it were that easy everyone would do it. But my point is what is going to motivate one to start a business if they're not going to have any power?
Gloomy · F
@Spoiledbrat If or that society is filled with people who only want power and profit like Walmart is a sad assesment.

Most people opening business around here or in Europe in general do usually make small courses in business but sometimes have just a profession in the service they want to provide.
I don't think everyone feels the need to create something new I do think the US is obsessed with the creation of a business idea thinking that being a worker is of less value which is not true.

Also it is fine to create a business but as soon as you employ people they should all share ownership and that would also be a shared burden then.
Allelse · 36-40, M
I'm not reading all of that, just put me in charge and I'll sort out all of the world's problems.
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@Allelse The Govt has 400 pages dedicated just to one law and you won't read this post but yet want to be in charge. I could just see it now lol.
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@Allelse Though don't get me wrong, my comment wasn't a judgement, I just thought it funny.
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Business owners have to be responsible and are hard working in a different way than employees.
I don't mind the utility and transport companies going into public hands.

[quote] The power created by private property is expressed most clearly in the labor market, where business owners get to decide who deserves a job and who doesn’t, and are able to impose working conditions that, if given a fair alternative, ordinary people would otherwise reject. [/quote]

Yep it's their business but discrimination protects exploitation in the recruitment process (at least in the UK, I'm sure more needs to be done). As for hours laws can be passed to prevent excessive overtime.

So... make housing a human right and give a generous minimum wage and hey presto!

[quote] And that’s also the ethical appeal of socialism: a world where people don’t try to control others for personal gain, but instead cooperate so that everyone can flourish. [/quote]

originnone · 61-69, M
It's not a pipe dream; it's just hard if not impossible to remove greed from the equation - there's always a way to exploit and control.......and keep the house....just leave the toothbrush....
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Gloomy · F
@helenS That is something you are never 100% safe from also there is still the distinction between private and personal property.
helenS · 36-40, F
@Gloomy ??? Private and personal property??
Gloomy · F
@helenS Private property is capital and personal property would be a persons house, clothing, car, ...

 
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