Defanged Fascism?

If you took fascism, did away with the racism, took away the expansionism and wars of agression (still had a heavilly militarized society), and actually had the hybrid system of mostly capitalism and corporatism with some social redistribution, then what would that be called?

Would it still be fascist? Just authoritarian? Crypto-fascist? Fourth Way?

This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »

Burnley123 · 41-45, M Best Comment

I'm not sure any society truly functions without some level of racism. I also think that a 'succrssful' fascist society would need that especially because it needs an 'other' to give it a reason d'etra.

Also, the corporatism of NAZI Germany is massively exaggerated. It kept the class structure entirely intact and increased corporate profits whilst suppressing wages. There was heavy state intervention in terms of capital controls and trade protectionism. Also a kind of Keynesian growth plan but even that was based much more around military spending than public works. The full employment plans were underfunded but heavily used in propeganda. Italian fascism failed to have either the ideological or technical control to transform their ecinomony.

It's a thought provoking question and well done for it but I agree with those who've said fascism is more about mentality than economic ideology.

GeistInTheMachine · 31-35, M

@Burnley123 Very well put.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@GeistInTheMachine Thanks man.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@Burnley123 I am not sure it was overstated, just not as obvious as say Italy.

Government "guidance" of business enterprises are not guidance when to say no meant being sent to the camps.

And from some reading I have done that seemed to be rather common. You don't need a command economy when you are making "suggestions" at gunpoint.

GeistInTheMachine · 31-35, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I thought the rich and corporations were on the Nazi side back then already anyway. Hitler knew what he was doing in that reguard. But yes, if a business didn't like it, they didn't last.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@GeistInTheMachine They were but once war broke out and especially after they started losing they in turn lost any pretext of independence.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow

Government "guidance" of business enterprises are not guidance when to say no meant being sent to the camps.

It wasn't quite like that. I'm literally reading a book about the economy of the Third Reich now. Obviously, it was an authoritarian society but they had a tacit alliance the German Ruling Class - and needed it. The NAZIs locked up the socialists and suppressed wages. Their protectionist bureaucracy helped most German firms because their currency was uncompetitive.

German businesses didn't agree with the NAZIs on everything and there were some mutual trade-offs. My point is that it wasn't really corporatist. There wasn't cooperation between the classes and it wasn't even really a centrally planned economy until the war broke out. Some people see it as such by comparing its economy to either New Deal America or the USSR. I am talking about the 'Hitler was a socialist' morons but also the conventional 'horse-shoe' theorist and people who don't distinguish between different types of state intervention.

Really it was more like an authoritarian state protecting and preserving the interests of German capital. Obviously, WW2 later destroyed a lot of German capital that is not my point.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@Burnley123 I agree to a point. And I am going off what I have read but apparently as the war started to turn that alliance with the business elite turned into something closer to a hostage situation. Because no sensible businessman wants their enterprise in ruins over a lost cause.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Oh, that much is true. I was talking about the Regine before the war. They had a centrally planned war economy during the conflict, with businesses having less power. Interestingly a lot of NAZIs and collaborators had successful business and political careers after the far. The relationship between the party and the German ruling class always was somewhat fluid.