Update
Only logged in members can reply and interact with the post.
Join SimilarWorlds for FREE »

The Grand Jury and the Ham Sandwich

It is often said that a prosecutor can go to a grand jury and indict a ham sandwich if he or she wants.

It seems like an overused phrase, but it really isn't.

Prosectuors tell a grand jury that it is about justice and that those they might indict will still have the ability to defend their innocence in court.

But that's not really what it's about. It's about securing some indictment.

They pad on extra charges so that the grand jury will feel that by dropping some of them they are somehow being "fair."

Additional charges of perjury and obstruction are often tacked on.

They'll use multiple charges against a defendant in the hopes of securing a plea bargain because they know a defendant's financial situation and that the threat of destroying their finances and their families' futures might be enough to get a guilty plea.

And there is no Constitutional limit on how many times prosecutors can go back to the grand jury on the same charges against a defendant.

In Russia they send those convicted to a gulag. In North Korea they are shot. Here, defendants face a financial Sword of Damocles over their heads even before undergoing trials that wil last years.

I seriously doubt the framers of the Constitution thoughtthat this would be how "justice" would work in America.
This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
When ever has so many apparent politically directed attempts at indictments occured?
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@samueltyler2

We just had a couple this fall with James Comey and Letitia James.

We've had past ones involving Scooter Libby and Blago. Former Baltimore City State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby had partial convictions overturned by a federal appeals court.

There are many others.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@beckyromero failed attempts at indictments?
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@samueltyler2

There was the D.C. Subway sandwich thrower. The grand jury refused to indict him on felony charges.

So what did prosecutors do? Reduced the charge to a misdemeanor for assaulting or impeding a federal officer.

A jury found him not guilty but prosecutors still partially got what they wanted, that is to distrupt the man's life and impose a financial penalty by way of attorney's fees he spent to defend himself (and his and loss of employement) against the charges and in the hope it would be a deterrent against future sandwich throwers.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@beckyromero i am really not asking about that, i am asking about when the feds, or others, go after individuals and when they fail to get an indictment, go to another grand jury with another prosecutor...
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@samueltyler2

Three grand juries this summer refused to indict D.C. resident Sydney Reid after she filmed ICE agents taking two people into custody from the city jail.

Reid was arrested for "assaulting, resisting, or impeding" federal officers, a felony punishable by up to eight years in prison.

After failing to get an indictment from the grand juries, prosecutors refiled the case against Reid as a misdemeanor. After a three-day trial a jury acquitting Reid of the misdemeanor charge.

"This case is a warning from the Department of Justice that they will have the backs of ICE goons, even when three grand juries reject their baseless charging decisions," said Reid's attorneys. "The Department of Justice can continue to take these cases to trial to suppress dissent and to try and intimidate people."
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@beckyromero have you looked at any other justice departments over the almost 250 years of the US?
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@samueltyler2

There are hundreds of examples. Grand juries in the South once ex-Confederates got back in charge. And then there are the manipulation of grand juries against striking workers both before and after World War II. And then there's the abuse of the Justice Department by the Nixon administation and the use of grand juries to suppress dissent.

You could spend a month doing that research. You likely have that free time; I do not. 🙂
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@beckyromero i wish i hade that free time.