Maritocorneo · 56-60, M
sarabee1995 · 26-30, FVIP
Wow. A very different view of anarchism than the view of anarchism presented by most of your fellow anarchists. I guess I am currently the exact opposite of an anarchist have worked in one way or another for the US Federal Government for almost eight years. But ... I like everything about the future world that you lean towards.
ThePatientAnarchist · 61-69
@sarabee1995 Perhaps you actually are an anarchist :)
Ynotisay · M
OK. But instead of classifying yourself in to a group, for the same reasons others do, why not just do what you do and leave it at that? Why not just walk the walk without the qualifier? Or make it public?
Isn't that the better path towards "free cooperation?" One void of labels?
Not slamming you because you're clearly sharp. But it seems that the tribal component, the "us vs. them," might be getting in the way of what you say that you want.
Isn't that the better path towards "free cooperation?" One void of labels?
Not slamming you because you're clearly sharp. But it seems that the tribal component, the "us vs. them," might be getting in the way of what you say that you want.
ThePatientAnarchist · 61-69
@Ynotisay Thank you for weighing in! I am in sympathy with your overall approach. In general I'm not into group identities or labels -- see my reply over here: https://similarworlds.com/lgbtq/gay-straight-bi/5318999-Sexual-confusion-Im-not-sure-if-Im-bisexual-I-was-married-so But like I also said there, sometimes these labels are useful. "Anarchist" is a good shorthand label for who I am politically, and it lets others with similar views know they are not alone. Also, I don't see it as being against anyone -- though of course it might be understood that way. Words are so tricky!
Also thanks for saying I'm sharp 🥹
Also thanks for saying I'm sharp 🥹
Ynotisay · M
@ThePatientAnarchist Fair enough. I personally think it's entirely counter-productive. And definitely not unique to anarchists. Which is why my take is that progress isn't really what it's about.
That said, I'm always in support of action when it's motivated by something 'good' instead of 'bad.' 👍
That said, I'm always in support of action when it's motivated by something 'good' instead of 'bad.' 👍
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
I get it. I dont know where I fall in your spectrum. I ignore government completely, focusing on the money flows as my guide to whats best for me and mine. If the system offers me a break, I take iot.. If ther system wants to take advantage, I find a work around. And I have trained my kids to do the same..😷
ThePatientAnarchist · 61-69
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@ThePatientAnarchist I am not so sure. I believe in Keysian Economics as the way to achieve the greatest good for the greatest number of people. As such I tend to be more cooperative that my own conception of a Libertarian.😷
BohemianBabe · M
In practice, I agree with your politics. But is Anarchy really possible? If we managed to eliminate the government, we would still have people making and enforcing laws. Chances are we'd be back to having local warlords. The nearest guys with the most power would make the laws, enforce them, and collect taxes with their private militias. We're always going to have government in some form, so instead of trying for no government, wouldn't it be better to just make government as democratic as possible?
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BohemianBabe · M
@ThePatientAnarchist Well like I said, it depending on the region and the available resources. If people had enough to live on, they were much less likely to attack another tribe. So sure, there were regions in the Americas that had very little wars. But with bigger governments, we're able to move resources to where they need to be through trade, both internal and international.
Granted, a lot of that is because of industrialization, but most of those big industries are either nationalized or funded by governments, since it benefits everyone.
Granted, a lot of that is because of industrialization, but most of those big industries are either nationalized or funded by governments, since it benefits everyone.
ThePatientAnarchist · 61-69
@BohemianBabe But unfortunately a lot of the resources are not going where they're needed :( So again, the way things currently are does not work optimally.
Anyway here we are at a dividing line between conventional socialism, which favours a big and benevolent government, and anarchism, which would like to see everything worked out on a much smaller scale, in a diversity of ways. It's basically a difference about strategy, more than about goals.
Anyway here we are at a dividing line between conventional socialism, which favours a big and benevolent government, and anarchism, which would like to see everything worked out on a much smaller scale, in a diversity of ways. It's basically a difference about strategy, more than about goals.
BohemianBabe · M
@ThePatientAnarchist I agree with politics on a small scale. I'm all for states' rights, giving more power to local governments, and having more direct democracy.
I think the country that has come the closest to Socialism is Switzerland. They have more local government, huge decentralization, and they've had more referendums than any other country. But when it comes to essential services, they prefer to nationalize those industries, which is good since those services should be guaranteed.
Our main disagreement is about whether it's possible to really not have government. Since I believe it's not possible, my goal is to make the government more democratic. Do you consider yourself a Marxist? Marx's idea was that if we achieve Socialism, the government would kinda just fade away one its own. I like Marx a lot, but I have no idea how that would happen.
I think the country that has come the closest to Socialism is Switzerland. They have more local government, huge decentralization, and they've had more referendums than any other country. But when it comes to essential services, they prefer to nationalize those industries, which is good since those services should be guaranteed.
Our main disagreement is about whether it's possible to really not have government. Since I believe it's not possible, my goal is to make the government more democratic. Do you consider yourself a Marxist? Marx's idea was that if we achieve Socialism, the government would kinda just fade away one its own. I like Marx a lot, but I have no idea how that would happen.
Miram · 31-35, F
Evidently, you can't explain nuanced to those who think in binary. It always irks me how Americans especially read a label and decide an entire identity. Whether that's a communist, capitalist, socialist, anarchist, feminist...etc.
Labels help navigate a spectrum towards goals, not meant to shorten an already short attention span.
Labels help navigate a spectrum towards goals, not meant to shorten an already short attention span.
Jokersswild · 22-25
ThePatientAnarchist · 61-69
@Jokersswild thanks for joining the conversation! I have a lot of personal freedom, but to me anarchism is a broader concept, a vision of how the world could be. It doesn't have to have the same meaning to you. Words are tricky!! Sometimes I just want to start from scratch, make up my own words, and floothwa umbalaba wentoo shooloomoo !
GuiltyBiStander · 31-35, F
Kudos for the full disclosure, and I respect the intent ✌
Not sure I can respond with anything of equal value though. I despise nearly every aspect of modern politics. And I truly loathe the toxic trolls from every worthless tribe, who show up on here & other social media to spew their rotten analysis/commentary/hysteria.
Partisan politics has turned into a vehicle for most of the twisted thinking and dysfuctional behavior that people once recognized as sick, and treated with couseling & medication. I suspect over half of the idiots who post their wank on here are off their meds, kicked out of therapy, and failing in work & personal relationships - but cover up the mess with a thin veneer of "political" activity that includes hateful, manipulative, and just fucking stupid discourse.
So I'm hoping your patience is rewarded ... someday. But my own view is that we've already got anarchy. It's not just a theory, it's an ugly reality. We need to call this shit what it is, clean up what's worth saving, and throw the rest (including the people who celebrate this garbage) down the deepest hole we can find.
Not sure I can respond with anything of equal value though. I despise nearly every aspect of modern politics. And I truly loathe the toxic trolls from every worthless tribe, who show up on here & other social media to spew their rotten analysis/commentary/hysteria.
Partisan politics has turned into a vehicle for most of the twisted thinking and dysfuctional behavior that people once recognized as sick, and treated with couseling & medication. I suspect over half of the idiots who post their wank on here are off their meds, kicked out of therapy, and failing in work & personal relationships - but cover up the mess with a thin veneer of "political" activity that includes hateful, manipulative, and just fucking stupid discourse.
So I'm hoping your patience is rewarded ... someday. But my own view is that we've already got anarchy. It's not just a theory, it's an ugly reality. We need to call this shit what it is, clean up what's worth saving, and throw the rest (including the people who celebrate this garbage) down the deepest hole we can find.
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ThePatientAnarchist · 61-69
@GerOttman keep leaning!! :D
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
Crazywaterspring · 61-69, M
@SatanBurger Credit unions are almost much better for ordinary individuals. You'll vote on officers and they have their own depositer's guarantee - the NCUA. They usually pay better rates on deposits and lower rates on loans (depending on one's credit).
Other things? Buy local when possible. Mutual aid.
Other things? Buy local when possible. Mutual aid.
ThePatientAnarchist · 61-69
@SatanBurger I'm so glad you're interested!
And I second everything @Crazywaterspring said.
In Canada, at least, an account in a credit union is insured by the government (oh well lol) just like a bank account, and the rates and the services they provide, including a debit card, are just like banks -- but you are dealing with a local organization that you are a member of, and that cares about the community.
And as Crazywaterspring said, I try to support local businesses rather than chains and big corporations. If you like to read, go to the library or shop at a bookstore rather than going to Amazon. Buy clothing at thrift stores when you can. The more human and the more local the better.
And yes, mutual aid! Where I live there are local give-away groups that you can find on Facebook or whatever. There are volunteer opportunities.
Of course there are also actual anarchist circles, reading groups, etc. to get more into the ideas and possible political activism (and different ideas of what anarchism is aiming for -- I'm just giving one version :) )
And I second everything @Crazywaterspring said.
In Canada, at least, an account in a credit union is insured by the government (oh well lol) just like a bank account, and the rates and the services they provide, including a debit card, are just like banks -- but you are dealing with a local organization that you are a member of, and that cares about the community.
And as Crazywaterspring said, I try to support local businesses rather than chains and big corporations. If you like to read, go to the library or shop at a bookstore rather than going to Amazon. Buy clothing at thrift stores when you can. The more human and the more local the better.
And yes, mutual aid! Where I live there are local give-away groups that you can find on Facebook or whatever. There are volunteer opportunities.
Of course there are also actual anarchist circles, reading groups, etc. to get more into the ideas and possible political activism (and different ideas of what anarchism is aiming for -- I'm just giving one version :) )
Sleepysheep · 26-30, M
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
You're going to find out quickly that conservatives here are illiterate. They can read but they can't read between the lines as those neurons aren't there. So they take things as you say them.
The only thing that makes it a little better is that Maga has admitted there's several fake profiles of theirs on here. So it seems like a lot but it's very few people with 3 profiles each.
The only thing that makes it a little better is that Maga has admitted there's several fake profiles of theirs on here. So it seems like a lot but it's very few people with 3 profiles each.
ThePatientAnarchist · 61-69
@SatanBurger thanks for the heads up!
RedBaron · M
There’s no free lunch. You should’ve learned that by now.
RedBaron · M
@ThePatientAnarchist
Dream on. Nothing costs you nothing and there’s no free lunch.
It’s eminently relevant.
I dream of a transformed world of free cooperation. I don't expect to see it in my lifetime, but I try to live in that direction.
Dream on. Nothing costs you nothing and there’s no free lunch.
It’s eminently relevant.
SomeMichGuy · M
lol
Then you don't really want anarchy, you just want more decentralization.
Then you don't really want anarchy, you just want more decentralization.
SomeMichGuy · M
@ThePatientAnarchist
No kidding. That's a tautology, not a revelation, not a clever observation.
At least you admit you don't want anarchy.
So what do you want? If you don't want central government, you give up most of the trappings which imagined utopias actually need.
decentralization is closer to anarchism than centralization
No kidding. That's a tautology, not a revelation, not a clever observation.
At least you admit you don't want anarchy.
So what do you want? If you don't want central government, you give up most of the trappings which imagined utopias actually need.
ThePatientAnarchist · 61-69
@SomeMichGuy
No kidding. That's a tautology, not a revelation, not a clever observation
Didn't say it was. I'm just pointing out that it follows the pattern I described earlier, my reason for being patient.At least you admit you don't want anarchy.
No, I did not "admit" any such thing. I said that I don't want anarchy in the sense of chaos. I do want anarchy in the sense of no government.
SomeMichGuy · M
ThePatientAnarchist · 61-69
@WalksWith Anarchism does draw some people who are more into anarchy in the sense of chaos! But the hope is for a free cooperative world where a police force will not be necessary. Whether we will ever get there, I don't know.