Trump is saying "We gave the choice on abortion back to the states"....as if that's supposed to be a good thing. MAGA, tell me why that's a good thing
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Penny · 46-50, F
you are right though about not wanting the government to infringe on our human rights to govern our own bodies ourselves. laws are made in the interest of our protection though. more so in a societal sense than a personal sense apparently. when the federal government gets involved though theres all kinds of stuff to consider. i mean, if its our human right then oohh of course the government will need to provide it! then theres concerns like suicide, bodily mutilation etc.. so we cant mutilate anyone else but we can do it to ourselves? we cant kill anyone else but we can do it to ourselves? we cant force anyone else to have an abortion but we can do it to ourselves... then there's transgenderism now that its scientifically possible. why should the government pay for that?? not saying it shouldnt be protected that people can if they want, but its just very complicated. as far as it being up to the states i think its a happy compromise that could have good outcomes. people need ot get more involved in their own governance myself included. i think it might help.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@Penny Your confusion is understandable. When I was on the admission committee for medical school, I would interview potential students. We would often speak about universal medical coverage and what should be included. The discussion always involved essential services and cosmetic. If someone is truly transexual, and cannot function in society because of it, would the surgery, and other therapy not be essential? There is really no "correct" answer. But, each case probably needs to be discussed individually.
@Penny
Correct.
Bodily autonomy is the most fundamental human right. I can't believe a person could care so little about that right being enshrined in law as robustly as possible simply on the basis that they don't want to get involved if it's not personally affecting them.
How close of a relationship to a person who is being affected would you have to have before you cared enough to not stay out of it?
Someone you've heard of? Colleague? Friend? Family? Only yourself?
Where do you start giving enough of a shit to get off the sidelines?
so we cant mutilate anyone else but we can do it to ourselves? we cant kill anyone else but we can do it to ourselves? we cant force anyone else to have an abortion but we can do it to ourselves
Correct.
Bodily autonomy is the most fundamental human right. I can't believe a person could care so little about that right being enshrined in law as robustly as possible simply on the basis that they don't want to get involved if it's not personally affecting them.
How close of a relationship to a person who is being affected would you have to have before you cared enough to not stay out of it?
Someone you've heard of? Colleague? Friend? Family? Only yourself?
Where do you start giving enough of a shit to get off the sidelines?
Penny · 46-50, F
@Pikachu look Pikachu. you don tknow my history. Or my moral stance on abortion which is kind of mixed. That is a major concern for many people. I mean I may not oppose abortion but I'm not going to champion it. Human rights is another matter. The government has power. Power needs to be used wisely. For example just cause its my right to eat whatever I want doesnt mean i should. If I had a problem with it then maybe Id take action. Apparently you do, but dont try and force your views on others. People have a right to their own views too. As far as coaxing me to champion your cause, its not working. I dont agree that they should have got rid of Roe vs Wade, but your confusing the issue. Is it about human rights or abortion rights. Abortion isnt necessarily a human right. You need trained doctors and such. Trying ot do it to yourself is dangerous. What rights do we have as humans??? Whatever those stronger than us allow.
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Penny · 46-50, F
@Pikachu if i didnt have the rigth to get an abortion my life would proabbly have turned out different. am I thankful i got an abortion. well, im glad i didnt have a baby at that age but if abortion wasnt an option maybe i would have and it would have been the best for me. idk. im not into controlling other peoples lives or trying to control them.
@Penny
Penny, maybe you felt you were answering but i didn't get it. I'd appreciate a more explicit answer to the question:
Do you think you should have the final say over your own body? Yes or no?
Are you into other people controlling other people's lives? Would you want some old men in government deciding whether or not your daughter has ownership of her own body or not?
Penny, maybe you felt you were answering but i didn't get it. I'd appreciate a more explicit answer to the question:
Do you think you should have the final say over your own body? Yes or no?
im not into controlling other peoples lives or trying to control them.
Are you into other people controlling other people's lives? Would you want some old men in government deciding whether or not your daughter has ownership of her own body or not?
Penny · 46-50, F
@Pikachu youre just not getting it. its more complicated than that. i mean yeah i agree a fetus is part of teh mothers body and under her jurisdiction but a lot of peopel dont. I do disagree with them but they have a "right" to their opinion. do i think their opinion should infringe on what i can or cant do to me own body? of course not. of course i think i should have the final say about my own body. but Pikachu, let me ask you this. Would you sell your unborn fetus to "science" for a half cost abortion? Do you think that should be legal? If you got a girl pregnant and didnt want a baby would you be mean to her until she agreed to have one since it is legal... If she didnt agree with you to get an abortion would you dutifully pay every month until the baby turned 18?
@Penny
Good start...Now all you need is to consider whether other people also want to have the final say over their own body.
Well i wouldn't...but i'm not sure how abuse or coercion enters into the idea that the ultimate choice is her's...
Can you clarify the point you're making here?
do i think their opinion should infringe on what i can or cant do to me own body? of course not
Good start...Now all you need is to consider whether other people also want to have the final say over their own body.
If you got a girl pregnant and didnt want a baby would you be mean to her until she agreed to have one since it is legal
Well i wouldn't...but i'm not sure how abuse or coercion enters into the idea that the ultimate choice is her's...
Can you clarify the point you're making here?
@Penny
You evidently agree that women are people and deserve the same right to bodily autonomy that any person has...but you say you want to stay out of it if it doesn't affect you. You say that you wouldn't vote to protect a fundamental human right if...what? What other issue or issues do you consider to take priority over a basic human right?
You evidently agree that women are people and deserve the same right to bodily autonomy that any person has...but you say you want to stay out of it if it doesn't affect you. You say that you wouldn't vote to protect a fundamental human right if...what? What other issue or issues do you consider to take priority over a basic human right?
@Penny
Yeah, you said you wouldn't vote only for that so i asked you what other issue or issues do you consider to take priority over a basic human right?
If you're getting to irritated to carry on then that's ok. This kind of discussion isn't for everybody.
If you have any questions pertinent to the subject of this thread then do feel free to ask them.
Yeah, you said you wouldn't vote only for that so i asked you what other issue or issues do you consider to take priority over a basic human right?
If you're getting to irritated to carry on then that's ok. This kind of discussion isn't for everybody.
If you have any questions pertinent to the subject of this thread then do feel free to ask them.
Prison1203 · 61-69, M
@Penny I’m sorry but you can’t scientifically change a person’s DNA you can mutilate their body to make them look like the opposite gender but they are still the sex they were born as , if you were buried and 100 years from now after you mutilated your body and they did a dna test it would say that you were born either a man or a woman, not the sec that the person thinks in their mind they were
Penny · 46-50, F
@Prison1203 im not talking about transgenderism as mutilation if thats what you mean. i was more thinking of like the more grotesque body modifications that people have been getting.not saying people cant do what they want to their own bodies...