Why does Rishi if re-elected, want to bring in national service for the 18+ including mandatory drafting, yes drafting 😯?
I hear on the radio thismorning. Does he know something we don't?
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
National Service is always a favourite among conservatives who have run out of real ideas 🙂
It could actually be quite useful if the media did not fixate on the military element (professional soldiers in general hate conscription). There are plenty of vacancies in social care and agriculture that could provide interesting early work experience for young people.
It could actually be quite useful if the media did not fixate on the military element (professional soldiers in general hate conscription). There are plenty of vacancies in social care and agriculture that could provide interesting early work experience for young people.
MommyLucy · 36-40, F
@SunshineGirl I hate the idea of teenagers being forced to join the army because in war it is children and the innocent who suffer the most so reading this made me sad! 😭😭😭 But I 100% agree with you the non military option may be a super good idea as long as people with mental health problems and severe learning disabilities are not put into situations that they couldn't handle! 🤗🤗🤗 I think the NHS the UK has is a true blessing and I wish sooo much we had that here in the states! 💖💖💖 If 18 year old me could volunteer in a free healthcare system I would be there in a cartwheeling heartbeat! 🤸♀️🤸♀️🤸♀️
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Three ways to understand this:
1) People expect Trump to win the US election.
If that happens, he will reduce funding for the UN, NATO and US military bases in Europe. That means that the UK and others will have to increase the size of its military to maintain the same level of coverage. The military was cut to the bone (as with everything else) during the Cameron and Osborne years and the cheapest way of doing this is to have national service. Otherwise - given the armed forces already have a recruitment shortage - you'd have to significantly increase the wages of service personnel.
2) Vote winner with the base
The national service idea is popular among GB watching boomers because it harks back to a time of empire and war that they romanticise about but did not live through. Amongst the generations who would actually get conscripted, the idea is poisonous and ridiculous. I almost hope someone tries this because it would massively increase anti-war movements and lead to some serious discussions of Britain's foreign policy!
3) Desperate last roll of the dice.
Nothing needs adding here.
1) People expect Trump to win the US election.
If that happens, he will reduce funding for the UN, NATO and US military bases in Europe. That means that the UK and others will have to increase the size of its military to maintain the same level of coverage. The military was cut to the bone (as with everything else) during the Cameron and Osborne years and the cheapest way of doing this is to have national service. Otherwise - given the armed forces already have a recruitment shortage - you'd have to significantly increase the wages of service personnel.
2) Vote winner with the base
The national service idea is popular among GB watching boomers because it harks back to a time of empire and war that they romanticise about but did not live through. Amongst the generations who would actually get conscripted, the idea is poisonous and ridiculous. I almost hope someone tries this because it would massively increase anti-war movements and lead to some serious discussions of Britain's foreign policy!
3) Desperate last roll of the dice.
Nothing needs adding here.
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Elessar · 31-35, M
@Burnley123 They are, but it's still populism ultimately. The promises they make during the campaign are either absolutely non-concretizable (like the right's "naval block", proposing to use the Navy to halt immigration routes), or attempting to concretize them will fail spectacularly resulting in a half-assed version of what was initially proposed (see M5S' universal basic income.. that was all but universal, and essentially an incentive to work irregularly and also get an additional paycheck at the expense of the regular workers) and/or in yet another financial blackhole (see the recent 110% superbonus, pretty much signed/prorogated by every main party including the ones that were/are nominally against it).
It's not a sustainable situation. A country can't go on forever electing populist, utterly incompetent executive that f*cks up big time until things get so bad they need to trigger a govt crisis, let a technical govt step in to do the bare minimum to stop a total meltdown and take all the blame of the previous political govt, and then repeat the cycle.
It's not a sustainable situation. A country can't go on forever electing populist, utterly incompetent executive that f*cks up big time until things get so bad they need to trigger a govt crisis, let a technical govt step in to do the bare minimum to stop a total meltdown and take all the blame of the previous political govt, and then repeat the cycle.
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Elessar · 31-35, M
@Burnley123 Let me start from the end, because there's been a key misunderstanding I think:
When you said your only options are essentially centre-right neoliberalism vs. far-right conservatism, I said "here (implying: unlike there) the options are not even those".
Oh for clarity, I'm absolutely in favor of some form of UBI, if designed and implemented decently, and if it's truly universal. That thing they came up with was an "universal basic income" only in the name.
What I'm criticizing and calling populism is selling poorly thought ideas that resonate well among the masses, but that concretely are nonviable or even detrimental because there's been absolutely no medium/long term planning.
Examples: "let's shoot at the immigrant boats!" or if you want "let's send the immigrants to Rwanda!" yeah, that's absolutely ethical and won't backfire internationally, "let's cut the spending by halving the number of parliament memebers".. that'll save us what, €0.50 per person per year, at the greater cost of greatly reducing representatives?; "let's give people money and call it UBI!".. financed how? oh, we'll think about it later!.. "no to nuclear energy!! but no to solar panels on farmable land, and no to windmills, no to domestric extractions!".. to continue importing fossil from Russia/Saudi Arabia?).
I'm of course not against simply doing politics for the masses (broad yet technically correct definition of populism).. otherwise I'd be at right!
The "populism" (with the definition above) situation we have here, also, is something that I think you've left behind post-Brexit, and also the reason why Conservatives over there are in a bad spot right now: reality has hit you, people woke up, they won't believe in political fairy tales as easily any more. Over here, we haven't had anything comparable (yet? 😬), so people are still going to fall for those.
We're absolutely dealing with different situations rn
Whether we have the same traits? Again no. Labour's manifestos, though radical for a British context, were costed and planned. [...]Aside from being anti establishment, there is zero common ground.
Oh absolutely, I wasn't trying to imply at all that we were in comparable situations, actually the opposite 😋 Nor that Labour or Green and M5S are comparable: I brought the five stars up only because currently they're our main/only viable (>5%) "leftwing" party.When you said your only options are essentially centre-right neoliberalism vs. far-right conservatism, I said "here (implying: unlike there) the options are not even those".
I'm not a fan of M5S because they were pretty much a contrarian student bullshit weeter made into a political party
Are*, not were: contrarianism is pretty much one of the few constants of that party: now they're for the most part tankies, but remember that their first governing coalition, led by Conte in person, was made with Salvini's league. I've a hard time defining them "leftwing", even if now they somehow try to position themselves as some sort of "anti-right" bastion. Oh for clarity, I'm absolutely in favor of some form of UBI, if designed and implemented decently, and if it's truly universal. That thing they came up with was an "universal basic income" only in the name.
I haven't asked you to define populism. If either of us did that, we'd probably agree that it's a politics that sets itself in opposition to the political establishment and claims to be on the side of the people. 'For the many, not the few,' was a corbynite electoral slogan. So guilty, I guess.
But I think it's important defining it; this definition is broad, and it works; but I was thinking of something more specific, so I'd say not guilty.What I'm criticizing and calling populism is selling poorly thought ideas that resonate well among the masses, but that concretely are nonviable or even detrimental because there's been absolutely no medium/long term planning.
Examples: "let's shoot at the immigrant boats!" or if you want "let's send the immigrants to Rwanda!" yeah, that's absolutely ethical and won't backfire internationally, "let's cut the spending by halving the number of parliament memebers".. that'll save us what, €0.50 per person per year, at the greater cost of greatly reducing representatives?; "let's give people money and call it UBI!".. financed how? oh, we'll think about it later!.. "no to nuclear energy!! but no to solar panels on farmable land, and no to windmills, no to domestric extractions!".. to continue importing fossil from Russia/Saudi Arabia?).
I'm of course not against simply doing politics for the masses (broad yet technically correct definition of populism).. otherwise I'd be at right!
If you ever want anything at all bar minor tinkering with a system if neoliberal capitalism, then you have to attempt some kind of populism. If you are serious about winning.
I guess, but ultimately the feet need to remain in the ground. You can't replace neoliberal capitalism by selling people an utopia that cannot realistically ever happen once they vote you in, while betting that people are too stupid to realize. It'll only backfire.The "populism" (with the definition above) situation we have here, also, is something that I think you've left behind post-Brexit, and also the reason why Conservatives over there are in a bad spot right now: reality has hit you, people woke up, they won't believe in political fairy tales as easily any more. Over here, we haven't had anything comparable (yet? 😬), so people are still going to fall for those.
We're absolutely dealing with different situations rn
Lol, he's a muppet, desperately grabbing for anything that might make him look good to voters.
The whole "This demographic is lazy" is no different to what he's said about the disabled for his entire time in office.
If you really sit down and look at it, though... they're trying to force 18 year olds to spend one weekend a month carrying out voluntary service, the NHS, fire service, ambulance, search and rescue, and critical local infrastructure - this is what most 18 year olds will be forced into doing (in theory).
Even those who are accepted to take the "military" option, they're going to be in an office somewhere, making sure that food and equipment is where it should be at the time it should be there... these are likely Eton educated boys - none of us high school educated plebs.
The thing is that it's not going to work in reality. One weekend a month isn't enough time to teach these people the skills they need to be a valuable member of the team... even a charity shop takes three or four days before you're confident enough to do just about anything.
If we put these people in the NHS, fire service, ambulance, search and rescue, there's the issue of safeguarding to deal with. They're going to be mingling with our most vulnerable members of society - so they'll have to be vetted for that... at whose expense???
They also say that there would be no consequences for not doing your "mandatory conscription" - so there's nothing stopping you receiving your invite and saying "No, thank you".
The whole "This demographic is lazy" is no different to what he's said about the disabled for his entire time in office.
If you really sit down and look at it, though... they're trying to force 18 year olds to spend one weekend a month carrying out voluntary service, the NHS, fire service, ambulance, search and rescue, and critical local infrastructure - this is what most 18 year olds will be forced into doing (in theory).
Even those who are accepted to take the "military" option, they're going to be in an office somewhere, making sure that food and equipment is where it should be at the time it should be there... these are likely Eton educated boys - none of us high school educated plebs.
The thing is that it's not going to work in reality. One weekend a month isn't enough time to teach these people the skills they need to be a valuable member of the team... even a charity shop takes three or four days before you're confident enough to do just about anything.
If we put these people in the NHS, fire service, ambulance, search and rescue, there's the issue of safeguarding to deal with. They're going to be mingling with our most vulnerable members of society - so they'll have to be vetted for that... at whose expense???
They also say that there would be no consequences for not doing your "mandatory conscription" - so there's nothing stopping you receiving your invite and saying "No, thank you".
SW-User
We are already at war, they can’t look after their own people, no one should comply! This is about depopulation.
[media=https://youtu.be/UohRnMOq4c0]
[media=https://youtu.be/UohRnMOq4c0]
Picklebobble2 · 61-69, M
Following his 'drowned rat' impersonation outside #10 last week, where he basically promised things are about to get a whole lot worse if you don't vote Conservative', he's trying to appeal to the fringe margins of anything political that might remotely describe itself as 'Conservative'.
That should appeal to all the far right groups currently threatening to derail any hope of any Conservative hoping to be elected.
That should appeal to all the far right groups currently threatening to derail any hope of any Conservative hoping to be elected.
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