Meanwhile Colombia university students are locked up and suspended from university for peaceful protest. A move supported by most of the self-styled free speech absolutists.
I really don't get the cognitive dissonance that ignores (or supports) actual political censorship but then reacts to racist trolls being banned from social media as though it is the fall of civilisation.
I'm not sure hate speech is the speech most at risk these days. Seems speech about love and attraction is much more at risk.
Remember when conservatives styled themselves as free speech fighters and anti-cancellation crusaders? But conservatives sure do love to ban books, don't they!
Some books banned in Florida schools [b]https://www.theledger.com/story/news/state/2022/04/26/florida-school-book-bans-these-library-titles-being-reviewed-school-boards/9542938002/[/b]
"From July 2021 to June 2022, PEN America’s Index of School Book Bans lists 2,532 instances of individual books being banned, affecting 1,648 unique book titles."
Also see https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/book-bans-florida-public-schools/
I don't know WHY Florida banned so many math books, but they did. [quote] May 6, 2022 — A Florida Department of Education review of 132 math books has led to the banning of more than 40% of them.[/quote] [b]https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2022/05/06/florida-bans-more-than-40--oif-math-books-after-review[/b]
Florida passed a law in 2022 that said educators could be prosecuted for 3rd degree felony if they display any unapproved books.
And nobody knew what had been approved.
So the only safe way for educators to stay out of jail is to HIDE ALL THE BOOKS!!!
Well first off people who make the argument that hate speech is protected and is also equally valid usually are using it for political cover and have no intention of expending those rights to the rivals and enemies.
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Maybe you're right; I can't read their minds. It's still concerning that the amount of the future generaiton that wants to do away with free speech (because banning hate speech is doing that) is barely a minority.
@BRUUH Umm no. Banning hate speech has fuck all with freedom of speech. Pretending it does suggests you want an excuse to justify hate speech. That is the only way that works.
A country where calling for the destruction of people is the kinds of countries that plunge into dictatorships. We have at a minimum a century of history that proves that.
@calicuz Another problem with the free speech absolutist argument is they love to claim personal responsibility and that people are not responsible for someone acting violently after hearing someone's rhetoric.
This is particularly absurd when you examine that argument further and realize they are essentially suggesting everyone in Nazi Germany came to exactly the same horrific ideas totally independently.
It's pretty complicated but no, most people wouldn't vote to ban free speech, all the 45% number means, is that it is becoming morally unacceptable to express offensive opinions. People don't want to hear about how abuse should be kept in the home for instance or all black people will rob you. I think that's all what it's leaning towards.
[quote][b]82% Say It’s Hard to Ban Hate Speech Because People Can’t Agree On What Speech Is Hateful or Offensive[/b]
An overwhelming majority (82%) of Americans agree that it would be difficult to ban hate speech because people can’t agree what speech is hateful and offensive. Indeed, when presented with specific statements and ideas, Americans can’t agree on what speech is hateful, offensive, or simply a political opinion:
59% of liberals say it’s hate speech to say transgender people have a mental disorder, only 17% of conservatives agree. 39% of conservatives believe it’s hate speech to say the police are racist, only 17% of liberals agree. 80% of liberals say it’s hateful or offensive to say illegal immigrants should be deported, only 36% of conservatives agree. 87% of liberals say it’s hateful or offensive to say women shouldn’t fight in military combat roles; 47% of conservatives agree. 90% of liberals say it’s hateful or offensive to say homosexuality is a sin; 47% of conservatives agree.
[b]Black, Hispanic, and White Americans Disagree about How Free Speech Operates African Americans and Hispanics are more likely than white Americans to believe:[/b]
Free speech does more to protect majority opinions, not minority viewpoints (59%, 49%, 34%). Supporting someone’s right to say racist things is as bad as holding racist views yourself (65%, 61%, 34%). People who don’t respect others don’t deserve the right of free speech (59%, 62%, 36%). Hate speech is an act of violence (75%, 72%, 46%). Our society can prohibit hate speech and still protect free speech (69%, 71%, 49%). People usually have bad intentions when they express offensive opinions (70%, 75%, 52%).[/quote]
@SatanBurger I'm having trouble finding the exact number of "45%" of youths. tho here are stats that pretty much prove it.
40% of americans (I'm sure disprportionately young) say the want the state to ban hate speech: https://www.cato.org/survey-reports/state-free-speech-tolerance-america#overview
40% of millenials cool with banning speech offensive to minorities: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/11/20/40-of-millennials-ok-with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/
How do your stats not make this a concerning number, and invalidate it as evidence that with the current trajectory, free speech will be in America as it is in Canada and Europe? 82% of people not agreeing with what consitutes hate speech doesn't matter at all; like, not even a bit. Like... people arguing over where a valid line to take away speech to begin with is a problem; that shouldn't be an argument in a free society. The fact that almost half of the future generation wants hate speech laws to begin with is a terrible thing. Like, imagine if I said in 1930 "a growing number of germans are anti-semitic" and you were like "well, 82% of germans don't even agree exactly on what to do with the jews. Some say we should exterimnate them, other exile them, etc. Therefore, Jews shouldn't worry" Like bruh, that's basically what you're saying about free speech.
Hate speech is not free speech and a lower court has already ruled on this. When are racists and bigots going to understand that this is a Nation of Laws?
@Penny Do I? Yeah, I think all speech is free speech, even if I don't like it. The idea that it should be illegal for us to say mean (or even hateful) things is silly. You can say whatever you want, you just can't do whatever you want.
Also, I think you defeat hatred with love, not by using the iron fist of the state.
@BRUUH First Amendment Fundamental Freedoms Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. (google)
well, going by this statement freedom of speech you could gather from it that it is protected [i]unless[/i] its in a public setting where people are gathered that encourages "non-peacefulness" id say internet is included as a public space. thats a case against against hate speech being against the law at least.
i mean its nice to say you can say whatever you want but saying shit can start trouble which seems to be the issue
@Penny To be honest, i'm more making an argument about the importance of the PRINCIPAL of freedom of speech, and not the actual legal amendment. The first amendment only forbids CONGRESS from passing laws agaisnt free speech; other branches actually are allowed to pass laws against free speech, such as local governments.
@Activitykittens that's a problem too. But honestly, any limit on free speech means this. Once freedom of speech isn't a right, it means whoever the legislators are will determine what is said, so whatever state officials like or don't like is now banned. This is why Freedom of speech must be protected, even for people we don't like. It's not that I think pedos speaking up for themselves is a good thing, but because I know that speech that is good will come under attack if I ban anything I personally hate.
[b]https://www.theledger.com/story/news/state/2022/04/26/florida-school-book-bans-these-library-titles-being-reviewed-school-boards/9542938002/[/b]
[b]https://pen.org/report/banned-usa-growing-movement-to-censor-books-in-schools/[/b]
