61-69, M
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ElwoodBlues · M
@badlands says [quote] The words misinformation and disinformation tend to be improperly used. He has questioned the safety of vaccines, which he is entitled to do. [/quote]
RFK Jr is not "questioning" vaccines. He's spreading LIES about vaccines. And then denying he did so. Surely you can discern the difference. Spreading lies is a synonym for disinformation.
@LeopoldBloom @windinhishair
[quote] [i]Fridman, July 6:[/i] You’ve talked about that the media slanders you by calling you an anti-vaxxer, and you’ve said that you’re not anti-vaccine, you’re pro-safe vaccine. Difficult question: Can you name any vaccines that you think are good?
[i]Kennedy:[/i] I think some of the live virus vaccines are probably averting more problems than they’re causing. There’s no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective. [/quote]
[b]https://www.factcheck.org/2023/11/scicheck-rfk-jr-incorrectly-denies-past-remarks-on-vaccine-safety-and-effectiveness/[/b]
Kennedy also lies when he says that vaccines are the “only medical product … that is allowed to get a license without engaging in safety tests.” [center][/center]
I'm happy to link you, @badlands, to the double blind placebo controlled trials of the two mRNA vaccines that were authorized for use in the US. One had 30,000 test subjects, the other 45,000.
RFK Jr is not "questioning" vaccines. He's spreading LIES about vaccines. And then denying he did so. Surely you can discern the difference. Spreading lies is a synonym for disinformation.
@LeopoldBloom @windinhishair
[quote] [i]Fridman, July 6:[/i] You’ve talked about that the media slanders you by calling you an anti-vaxxer, and you’ve said that you’re not anti-vaccine, you’re pro-safe vaccine. Difficult question: Can you name any vaccines that you think are good?
[i]Kennedy:[/i] I think some of the live virus vaccines are probably averting more problems than they’re causing. There’s no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective. [/quote]
[b]https://www.factcheck.org/2023/11/scicheck-rfk-jr-incorrectly-denies-past-remarks-on-vaccine-safety-and-effectiveness/[/b]
Kennedy also lies when he says that vaccines are the “only medical product … that is allowed to get a license without engaging in safety tests.” [center][/center]
I'm happy to link you, @badlands, to the double blind placebo controlled trials of the two mRNA vaccines that were authorized for use in the US. One had 30,000 test subjects, the other 45,000.
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windinhishair · 61-69, M
@badlands RFK Jr. knows the law enough to litigate environmental issues. He is not an engineer or scientist and does not know the subject matter well enough to be a subject matter expert. He has to use people who have similar training and experience to my own as subject matter experts. He would get laughed out of court if he presented himself as a subject matter expert. The same issue pertains to his knowledge of vaccines. He is not a subject matter expert. I will rely on the people who understand the subject best to inform my actions. You obviously can rely on whoever you wish.
ElwoodBlues · M
@badlands says [quote]I am suggesting no definition. [/quote] Actually, that's EXACTLY what you're doing.
Suggesting that RFK Jr's re-definition has legitimacy IS suggesting a definition.
[quote]Vaccines have the potential to be dangerous, and in some instances have been.[/quote] That in no way negates the legal and working definitions of "safe and effective" that have been part of law since thalidomide.
[quote] I am saying that what you claim is the "medical and legal phrase" is irrelevant. [/quote]
The words of RFK Jr. and what they misrepresent is what is relevant. As an environmental lawyer, he knows he can't redefine "pollution." His attempts to redefine "safe and effective" are just as misleading as attempting to re-define pollution.
No matter how hard you try to re-define the phrase "safe and effective," it still has its legal and medical meaning. It's like if I were to call someone a liar and, when challenged, say I have my own personal definition of liar. Sorry, one doesn't get to redefine legal or ethical terms of art. Doing so "in secret" is just a form of disinformation.
RFK Jr can be summarized as "No vaccine is safe and effective." It only takes ONE safe and effective vaccine to render that broad statement false, and I've cited NINE.
Suggesting that RFK Jr's re-definition has legitimacy IS suggesting a definition.
[quote]Vaccines have the potential to be dangerous, and in some instances have been.[/quote] That in no way negates the legal and working definitions of "safe and effective" that have been part of law since thalidomide.
[quote] I am saying that what you claim is the "medical and legal phrase" is irrelevant. [/quote]
The words of RFK Jr. and what they misrepresent is what is relevant. As an environmental lawyer, he knows he can't redefine "pollution." His attempts to redefine "safe and effective" are just as misleading as attempting to re-define pollution.
No matter how hard you try to re-define the phrase "safe and effective," it still has its legal and medical meaning. It's like if I were to call someone a liar and, when challenged, say I have my own personal definition of liar. Sorry, one doesn't get to redefine legal or ethical terms of art. Doing so "in secret" is just a form of disinformation.
RFK Jr can be summarized as "No vaccine is safe and effective." It only takes ONE safe and effective vaccine to render that broad statement false, and I've cited NINE.
badlands · 22-25, F
@ElwoodBlues That doesn't matter. RFK Jr. understands that there is always going to be one person a vaccine isn't safe and effective for. When talking about the polio vaccine, he was alluding to the cancers associated with it. Vaccines are mostly effective as they mostly prevent the diseases they are meant to, and they can be safe for most of the people who receive them. This is the correct way to say it. Other people will disagree and say they are not safe, especially if they have children who developed autism after receiving vaccines. I would not question their experiences or their decision to avoid further vaccinations.
LeopoldBloom · M
@Ynotisay He's not? Then what is he trying to do here? It's not clear if he is pulling more votes from Trump or Biden.
Ynotisay · M
@LeopoldBloom He's raising his profile. Selling books and booking speaking engagements is where the money is.
LeopoldBloom · M
Most of his support right now is coming from people who aren't happy with either Biden or Trump, and don't know much about RFK other than his last name. As the election approaches, his support will plummet along with other third party support as people realize that throwing their vote away on a performative candidate could help their least favored candidate win. Maybe if we had ranked-choice voting, third party candidates would do better.
windinhishair · 61-69, M
@LeopoldBloom Hopefully some day we have ranked choice voting for federal and state elections. It would cut way down on the number of crazies and outliers from both parties.
FlowersNButterflies · 61-69, F
badlands · 22-25, F
@FlowersNButterflies What damage is that?
FlowersNButterflies · 61-69, F
@badlands If you have to ask (even his family spoke out against him and won't be voting for him) you are way toooo much work for me.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2023/10/09/rfk-jrs-family-denounces-his-dangerous-independent-presidential-bid-just-minutes-after-campaign-launch/?sh=5ff979b69fb4
https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2023/10/09/rfk-jrs-family-denounces-his-dangerous-independent-presidential-bid-just-minutes-after-campaign-launch/?sh=5ff979b69fb4
badlands · 22-25, F
@FlowersNButterflies Americans shouldn't vote for him because four of his ten siblings said so? What kind of reason is that? Have you tried reading his policies?
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
badlands · 22-25, F
What does it matter that he is a former heroin user? This is a slur intended to malign his character. The above video does not include the clarification he made about vaccines in the same podcast episode. He said the polio vaccine [i]is[/i] effective, but not necessarily safe or worth it. Why do you think he is right wing?
https://www.kennedy24.com/policies
What do you think of his policies? They are not superficial. He seems to have a deep and sincere interest in addressing the core of the problems in the US. How many people like him come along?
https://www.kennedy24.com/policies
What do you think of his policies? They are not superficial. He seems to have a deep and sincere interest in addressing the core of the problems in the US. How many people like him come along?
badlands · 22-25, F
@windinhishair You lost Americans to a highly infectious respiratory disease. It is unfortunate that this disease came about. Prior to it spreading across Wuhan and the rest of the world, several lab workers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology apparently became ill with a virus resembling Covid-19.
What does "follow the science" mean? People seem to say it without really thinking about it. I thought it had lost its appeal and that we had realized how profoundly stupid it is. There is a lot of science; there is a lot of everything. We live in a natural and unnatural world.
What does "follow the science" mean? People seem to say it without really thinking about it. I thought it had lost its appeal and that we had realized how profoundly stupid it is. There is a lot of science; there is a lot of everything. We live in a natural and unnatural world.
windinhishair · 61-69, M
@badlands We would have lost fewer Americans to the virus had Trump not been president. His deliberate misinformation caused many Trump Cult members not to vaccinate, and at least 250,000 more died due to it than otherwise would have. Cultists continued to die at disproportionate rates long after Trump’s failed presidency, and many more have long Covid.
bijouxbroussard · F
windinhishair · 61-69, M
@bijouxbroussard I can't even imagine. They couldn't be more different.
gol979 · 41-45, M
Yep, you should hear his stance on anybody who has a different opinion on "climate change" 😉
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bijouxbroussard · F
@independentone You read it as "wishy-washy" but would you prefer someone who forges ahead to disaster because they’re too proud to adapt when the situation changes or they receive new information ? How is [b]that[/b] helpful ?
independentone · M
@bijouxbroussard This whole Israel mess could have been handled much quicker and better if Biden had the balls to just tell Netanyahu that unless he does as he is told, all support and weapons will be ended for Israel.
That would have been the sensible thing to do to a rogue, war criminal dictator
That would have been the sensible thing to do to a rogue, war criminal dictator
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