Israeli Air Strikes kill three British aid workers in Gaza

The IDF must be disappointed with such a low number. /S. The British government say they are unhappy "In no uncertain terms."

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trollslayer · 46-50, M

This strike very clearly brings into question all the other previous complaints about "indiscriminate bombing", "trigger happy" soldiers, or "purposeful killing of civilians" back into question.

I was very firmly on Israel's side back in October and November of last year. Then they gunned down a couple of nuns and three of their own hostages. Very clear to me after that that Israel has a strategy of "shoot all that moves" within a "war zone" as they declare. Every subsequent incident is further proof of this.

War crimes? [u]100% guilty[/u]. Full stop.

Intent? I bought the "self defense" reasoning for awhile, and then the "reckless self defense" or "angry retaliation" reasoning for awhile. Now I am to the point that a very large portion of Israelis (if not the majority) truly believe Gaza is rightfully theirs by decree of God, and really don't give a shit what happens to Gazans. In other words the "G" word. YES, YOU CAN COMMIT GENOCIDE IN "DEFENSE" OF YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

I'm so upset at this point that I think the international community needs to force a cease fire. That may mean militarily, and striking targets ON BOTH SIDES that break that cease fire.

Yeah, Israel may think that is harsh, but they fail to recognize that others are trying to save their sorry asses because they are failing to do that themselves.

Ynotisay · M

@trollslayer There's some spots on Reddit that are sharing on the ground footage of what's taking place in Palestine. I don't see any legitimate excuse that can be made to justify the atrocities. "They attacked us first" and "Jews are always persecuted" has a shelf life given their current responses. They're not only burning through political capital but I think the world is turning against them in no uncertain terms. This is the result of extremists in power. And, eventually, they'll pay because of it.

GlitterEater · 36-40, F

@trollslayer I forgave people for supporting Israel up until around December or January. Most Western people just weren't aware of the history and the behavior of the IDF. That's no longer an excuse. The [i]war[/i] has been news for half a year now and it's clear Israel is committing genocide and it should be obvious to even the most politically disinterested people. No one who supports Israel is going to convince me that they aren't aware of the genocide. If you deny it, you're willfully lying, and it's obvious.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@trollslayer I respect people like you who have changed positions. You've looked at the facts and changed your mind. Too few people do that

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@GlitterEater I think his take is decent though, to be clear. He admits he was wrong and that is not an easy thing to do.

GlitterEater · 36-40, F

@Burnley123 Totally. I think him changing his mind is very admirable.

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@Ynotisay Seems to me most Jewish holidays revolve around stories about "someone tried to kill us but God was on our side and we wiped them out instead." This feels like an extension of that. Israel (the current country) reminds me of one of those people you know who has an excuse for everything, and when you ever so slightly imply they might be partially responsible for something, they come back and accuse you of being hateful. And there is HUGE hypocrisy - they seem to claim the UN is against them (for many years) because the UN sometimes calls them out on their shit, such as moving settlers into occupied territories being against international law, then Israel uses the excuse that the borders of those territories have never been established; therefore, it is not illegal. Yet, on the other hand, they perfectly accept the UN resolution that established their own borders and would consider people that crossed into their territory for settlement as an act of war.

GlitterEater · 36-40, F

@trollslayer @Burnley123 Sorry if it isn't clear. I think you are acting very admirably.

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@GlitterEater Yeah, and if one paid attention it is clear this began long before Oct 7th, and that Oct 7th was almost inevitable.

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@GlitterEater My wife is Jewish. She has friends/family that are Israeli or live in Israel. I feel very deeply for them. And I certainly understand how an event like Oct 7th is very upsetting and triggering, especially given the history of the Jewish people. I definitely don't wish Israel to cease to exist as a country, nor do I think in the slightest that the people living there are "getting what they deserve". My position here against the current Israeli leadership and actions of the IDF is not in any way against the right to defend themselves, but the exact opposite. "Defending themselves" will require them to change their attitude and accept some hard truths. What they are doing now is angry retaliation and will only ensure eventual destruction. Maybe that is what they want.

But I think the population of Israel, and especially Jewish people living abroad, have had their history whitewashed, just like Amercians have had their history whitewashed.

But most telling for me was going to services at the temple and hearing a prayer that basically calls God to defend the land from the sea to the river Jordan and from Lebanon to Egypt. At the same time, they consider those chanting "from the river to the sea" as genocidal.

GlitterEater · 36-40, F

@trollslayer I didn't take that as you saying that Israelis deserved October 7th. You can recognize the material conditions leading to something without endorsing it.

Ynotisay · M

@trollslayer Well stated. Accurate. I have a little personal experience having lived in an almost entirely Jewish neighborhood, mostly Orthodox, as a white, male, non-believer. The one takeaway for me was the role that persecution plays. It's a constant. It's taught to children and becomes an automatic response in adults.
Most all religions lean on "Us vs. Them" to control but I think they take it to another level. It could be why they seem to lean in to "You're with us or you're against us." And have confidence that "You're with us" is the prevalent thought. I think that's changed in public perception..

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@Ynotisay YES! Very black/white thinking in that community.

Ynotisay · M

@trollslayer Yep. No room for dissent.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@trollslayer Far too many people (billions) simply love Jewish fairytales, no matter how absurd the fairytales are.