Alberta Premier Marlaina Smith plans to enact policies that will unavoidable HURT Trans kids while pretending to care about their protection.

@Spoiledbrat

Well let me ask you this: Do you think the number of trans kids who will be abused, punished or otherwise harmed if teachers are forced to out them to their parents is zero?

Follow up: What number of abused children would you consider acceptable for parents to be informed and have a say on their children's use of pronouns or names?

@Pikachu Kids and adults are abused all the time.

@Spoiledbrat

Yup and that's sad.
I would like to be on the side of reducing the number of kids who get abused. How bout you?

Of course but changing one's sex is something that should go through the parents. @Pikachu

@Spoiledbrat

So you want to reduce the number of kids who are abused. Good.

Do you think that outing trans kids against their will to potentially abusive parents will reduce or increase the rate at which they are abused?

@Pikachu The key here is potentially.

@Spoiledbrat

Nope.
It's not potentially, it's inevitably.
There WILL be parents who abuse, punish, disown or otherwise harm their trans kids when they find out. This is not conjecture, this is documented not only in the literature but by trans people's lived experience.

Have a quick look at this.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8344346/#:~:text=RESULTS,abuse%20(OR%20%3D%202.04).

So are you in favour of a policy which cannot help but result in an increase of child abuse?

You're the one that said potentially. I think it is has to be up to the parents. When the child is 18 and moves out they can do what they want. But while the parents are paying the bills it's up to them. I think parents should know. @Pikachu

@Spoiledbrat

I said potentially abusive parents because not all parents are abusive. I did NOT say potential harm, because the harm is inevitable. That is to say, it's not a question of if trans kids will be abused but how many will be abused and to what degree. I assume you looked at the paper i sent you.

I know you think parents should know, you've already said that. How do you feel about the kids who will be abused if this policy forces teachers to out them? Don't shy away please. Answer the question.

Kids are abused for many reasons. If my kid was trans I'd want to know. I'd have a right to know. And abused children can be taken away. @Pikachu

@Spoiledbrat

Abused children can indeed be taken away. I'd prefer to prevent them from being abused rather than causing them be abused and then taking action. Wouldn't you?

@Pikachu No. The kids belong to the parents. There is no reason to assume they are going to be abused.

@Spoiledbrat


Yes there absolutely is. Did you read the paper i sent you? I don't think you did so let me copy and paste some of the results for you which show that trans youth are at an increased risk of abuse compared to cis gender youth.


In a nationwide online sample of US adolescents, TGAs had elevated rates of psychological, physical, and sexual abuse compared with heterosexual CGAs. ... Seventy-three percent of TGAs reported psychological abuse, 39% reported physical abuse, and 19% reported sexual abuse. Compared with heterosexual CGAs, TGAs had higher odds of psychological abuse (odds ratio [OR] = 1.84), physical abuse (OR = 1.61), and sexual abuse (OR = 2.04).


BELONG to parents? As in PROPERTY?!
No. Kids are humans with human rights. In fact under section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms they have a right to security which this policy takes away.
Children are the RESPONSABILITY of the parent, not the PROPERTY.

Don't twist my words. @Pikachu

@Spoiledbrat

Please acknowledge my correction to your claim that "There is no reason to assume they are going to be abused"
I did cite liturature on the subject. Trans kids are disproportionately abused compared to cis kids. Additionally, trans and other LGTB youth make up a small fraction of the general population but nearly a quarter of homeless youth. Do you think that's because their parents are generally supportive and accepting?

I think you should go seek out trans voices. Go listen to some accounts by trans people on the subject of coming out to their parents and what happens.


You said children belong to parents. If that's not what you meant then i'm happy to agree that they do not belong to parents.

Straight kids are abused too. And what I meant was there is no reason to assume every single trans kid will be abused. That's not fair to the parents. Abused kids can and should be removed from the home. @Pikachu

@Spoiledbrat


You are correct. Not every single trans kid will be abused but MORE trans kids are abused compared to straight kids and MORE trans kids will be exposed to abuse because of this policy which will out them against their will.

Are you in favour of increasing the likelihood of abuse to trans kids?

If my son had been trans it would have been a big deal and something that would have needed to be faced. I can see a school counselor keeping a secret or confidential but no one else. @Pikachu

@Spoiledbrat

Excuse me, but you didn't answer my question.

This policy will unavoidably expose trans kids to a higher risk of abuse then they would otherwise experience.
Are you in favour of increasing the likelihood of abuse to trans kids?


And i'm sure you're the kind of parent that your son would have felt safe to come out to. But that is not the case for all trans kids

@Spoiledbrat
I have to go to bed so i'll have to catch you in the AM.

But let me leave you with this question: If you were a teacher and this policy forced you to tell the parents of one of your students that they were trans and then that student was hurt as a result...how would you feel?

Kids belong to their parents so to speak. Raising them js their responsibility. @Pikachu Parents can't help their children if they don't know what's going on with them. It's one thing for a school counselor to be a confidant but teachers work for the parents. Teachers owe the parents a report card. And if parents are abusive they can lose their rights as parents.

@Spoiledbrat I generally agree with you. However, I'd think a child who would like to be addressed differently at school, would want to be at home too and tell their parents themselves. That is, unless they have good reason to believe their parents won't want anything to do with gender identity. That's the kind of parents who need a law to get involved by third parties. Supportive parents will be involved by the child itself without any law. This mostly affects parents who'll want to put a stop to it in one way or another. Why is that important?

@Spoiledbrat

I'm becoming frustrated with you because you continue to refuse to answer a direct question.
I agree that abusive parents can lose custody of their children, that is not the issue and it should be the goal to PREVENT abuse rather than punish it after the fact. The issue is that a policy that outs trans kids CANNOT AVOID INCREASING the number of kids who are abused

I understand the position you hold, but i ask you to show me that you're considering this subject in good faith by answering these questions. If you are not willing to answer the questions then please do not reply because any response that does not include a direct answer to these questions will be deleted.

1) Would you rather prevent child abuse or punish it after the child had been abused?
2) Are you in favour of increasing the likelihood of abuse to trans kids?


They do indeed...on their academic performance and even how they get along with other students and teachers. They do NOT owe parents an intelligence report on their children's every move or action.


If your kid doesn't trust you then it is not the government's place to force them to confide in you.

@NerdyPotato


Thank you. Yes.
Supportive parents whose children know they are in a safe place will eventually be confided in by their child in most cases.
Parents who are hateful or religiously motivated or whatever unsupportive scenario it may be are the one who want to know their kid is trans not so they can be supportive but so that they may put a stop to it.