@Burnley123 You hit on a key reason that Israel doesn't seem to want peace. Support from the west in the form of money and military aid. It also serves to keep their population under control. Fear and enemies are baked in to the Israeli cake. But the PA was interested in treaties which, to a lot of people was seen, and as you said, as being complicit with Isreal. So right there it becomes a non-starter. But that's the best, and only chance as I see it, in moving forward without so much bloodshed. The other, which I'm not sure is off the table, is a complete invasion and destruction of Palestine and then starting over. I think there's real support by some for that. Which I find very hard to accept.

@Ynotisay [quote]The other, which I'm not sure is off the table, is a complete invasion and destruction of Palestine and then starting over.[/quote]

I think that this will eventually happen but without the starting over part. I think we are witnessing the next stage in this process right now.

@Burnley123 Yeah. This is different. Israel has now fired weapons in to Palestine, Syria and Lebanon. The next stage of this process could be very, very bad for humanity.

@LookingForTheSummer I've read into this plenty and I have never said that either side was completely right. It's lazy and reductionist for you to assume that I would think that.

I don't see this as a game when likely tens of thousands (at least) of people will die from it.

@Burnley123 Well, I've seen you being worried about the death number of only one side. Lol.
Another thing I noticed is that most leftists in Western countries support Palestine, and most rightists support Israel. So this whole thing has become another excuse for them to fight against each other. 🙄

@LookingForTheSummer If you agree with equality, its consistent to support the plight of an occupied people.

If you've read what I have said, then I have explicitly condemned Hamas killing civilians but I guess its a nuance you can miss if you want to put people in an easy box.

@Richard65 Dick, you're just confirming what I already said. You chose to read the propaganda that promotes your current beliefs around Black Lives Matter and now you are using a purity test to try and dismiss my opinion.

Why is the race of who I read so important to you? I try to focus on ideas in my reading, not clicking off a demographic box so I can fit in with the culture du jour.

@SumKindaMunster nice try. You dismiss the actual lived reality of people as mere propaganda and refuse to read them then think you're speaking from a position of knowledge. You represent everything I'm criticising, so it's appropriate that you replied. You say you try to focus on ideas in your reading. Tell me - where do you get your ideas from if you refuse to read the thoughts and lived experiences of the very people we're discussing? Who are you reading?

@Richard65 Point of clarity tricky dick, my comment about "propaganda" was directed to BLM and the BLM leadership, not the authors you referenced.

I tend to read about stories that expose how our government and centers of power are using advanced propaganda techniques to brainwash people into going along with their agenda. You following the court case "Missouri vs Biden"? Its shocking what the US government is doing to prevent people from thinking for themselves.

Here's something regarding race that caught my interest. The talk is ok, what is relevant is this was very poorly received by a "faction" of TED and Coleman had to endure some nonsense with his TED talk including having it suppressed and demonetized because it offended some people behind the scenes at TED...

I'm a free speech absolutist. Short of Charles Manson style speech directly others to harm, I think people should say whatever they want, and if it offends, then don't listen or expose yourself to it.

The people that say free speech is "dangerous" are the ones to watch out for, not what they point their jaundiced finger at...

https://www.ted.com/talks/coleman_hughes_a_case_for_color_blindness

@Justice4All That's definitely at play. What's interesting to me is that Israel isn't a theocracy or close to being 100% Jewish. But they've created a sort of teflon. You can't be opposed to their government without being labeled antisemitic. There's no separation. And that's by design.

@Burnley123 Hamas is a terrorist organisation, you refuse to call them terrorists.

It's a fucking disgrace the BBC refused to call Hamas terrorists but will make a great defunding campaign.

@BritishFailedAesthetic I haven't refused to call them that. I just don't think that that violence done by a state is any better than other violence.

@Burnley123 Ok I'm on the defensive as how nasty others have got and you're being friendly.

For me yes Palestinian children are victims of war in the same sense German children were at the bombing of Berlin, it's a tragedy but unfortunately part of war.

Israel do not go out of their way like Hamas to abduct children and the disabled.

@MarkPaul Get back to posting those asinine diatribes about gutless baby Trump,'. You high-brow intellectual. 😂

@Burnley123 Well, I just get frustrated at people (like you) who come up with simple pronouncements without putting in the effort to understand the context of the issue for the sole purpose of positioning themselves as the centre of attention.

@TheEmperor LOLZ You are a troll.

@Roundandroundwego They are pro-Israel but both sidesism is also annoying.

@BRUUH Most of the people on this thread are propagandized to the point that they will ignore such inconvenient truths.

Violent crimes committed by young Black males have been consistently higher than other races for as long as we have tracked them.

The culture du jour wants to excuse, overlook and minimize such truths, or say its "complicated" and blather on about economic opportunity, racism, etc.

BLM is another unfortunate example of Black hucksterism, using the unfortunate circumstances of the Black underclass to raise money for their pet causes and do nothing to address the problems they are protesting about.

@SumKindaMunster I honestly wish that @Burnley123 would reply to my comment. I was nice to him before but he only talks to me when he hops on one of my statuses to leave an insult, then dips when I challenge him. Would be nice if I could get his take on BLM, and how a black police officer is more likely to shoot a black suspect, how blacks are only disproportionately shot by cops because they disprportionately have interactions with them more, and how the reason they have interactions more is because their neihborhoods are policed more since it has more crime. AND how it doesn't even matter cause this isn't even an epidemic; the number of unarmed black killed is low as shit anyone per year. The hypothesis that white racism runs in the police force and accounts for the deaths is completely discredited.

@BRUUH Weirdly, you're the third person this week who has approached for advice on dealing with Burnley....

I dont' think this subject is of interest to him. I don't disagree with anything you said, but such truths are very inconvenient right now in this moment.

But I would say to just speak to him relevantly as a person.

I don't agree with or care about a lot of the stuff he does, but he is a real, genuine and sincere person and if you approach him that way, in my experience, he reciprocates.