All those people who said 'All lives matter,' in response to BLM...

@Deceased Some aspects are complicated but the most important aspects are not. I agree with you. 'It's complicated,' is a way of passing the buck.

@Deceased I don't know. It is complicated to me. Hamas is a terrorist organization. They're jihadists. They deserve to be eliminated. As do all terrorist organizations. Why they're there actually is complicated. As is their relationship to Palestine. What's not complicated is standing against the slaughter of innocent people. Most of whom are poor and have never known peace.

@Ynotisay so its okay to kill children because you were bombing Hamas? Was it okay to fly a plane into the Trade Center and kill innocents because they were attacking the US government, whom is viewed as a terrorist organization by a lot of people? Or can you rationalize that too?

@Deceased [quote]so its okay to kill children because you were bombing Hamas?[/quote]

He hasn't said that.

@Burnley123 he justified it because Hamas is a terrorist group. Anytime Israel kills a bunch of Palestinians its always because they were bombing Hamas. And thats the whole argument.

@Ynotisay I tend to agree but I think we need to think about the word terrorist. I don't think violence done by non-state actors is any worse than actions done by a state. The saying goes that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. I certainly don't agree with Hamas ideologically and I think that they would be doing the same to Israel if they had the power but they don't.

Why I don't see both sides as the same is because of the fundamental power imbalance here. An occupied people trapped in an open-air prison in third-world conditions against a western backed modern military state.

@Deceased [quote]What's not complicated is standing against the slaughter of innocent people. Most of whom are poor and have never known peace.[/quote]

He did say this. I'm sure it is referring to Palestinians as they are much poorer than Israelis.

@Deceased Slow your roll man. No need talk to me that way. I'm not a kid on a playground or some fool in a bar. If you want to have an adult interaction then act like an adult. Otherwise, save it for someone else.

@Ynotisay don't speak the truth to you? It maybe painful to swallow but none of this shit is okay. Its not okay, its not okay, its not, by any stretch of the imagination o-fucking-kay.

@Burnley123 [i]The saying goes that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.[/i] I would say that's 100% accurate. But it's the belief system of jihadists that doesn't scream 'freedom fighter' to me. In so many ways it's easy to justify why they did what they did with that attack. Years and years of oppression can push anyone over the edge. And I have a feeling that was the main reason more than half in Gaza supported them. But freedom is going to be found through treaty's and laws. They've made it clear in the past that they're not after that. That's where this whole thing veers off the tracks. There's no realistic end game that has a focus on the well-being of citizens. Either Palestinians or Israeli's. They're fighting for different reasons at the behest of ideologues who don't seem to put much value on human lives.

@Ynotisay It was Fatah who was once the main party for Palestinians. I believe that they lost out because they were corrupt and eventually seen as complicit with the Israeli occupation. Hamas were seen as doing more for the community. Also had a narrative of revenge that became more compelling, the more Palestinians suffered. Hamas are Islamic terrorists and hold very reactionary views but not quite to the extent of ISIS.

The reason why I think that clamping down on Israel is the only way to solve the conflict is because they are by far the most powerful party. As long as the Palestinians are occupied, they will resist, through Hamas or someone else. As long as Israel gets weapons, money and diplomatic support from the west, it will build more settlements in the west bank and further reduce the Palestianian population until there are non left. I have said that Hamas would do the same, if they had the power. In which case I would be opposing them and supporting a two state solution from the other side.

@Burnley123 You hit on a key reason that Israel doesn't seem to want peace. Support from the west in the form of money and military aid. It also serves to keep their population under control. Fear and enemies are baked in to the Israeli cake. But the PA was interested in treaties which, to a lot of people was seen, and as you said, as being complicit with Isreal. So right there it becomes a non-starter. But that's the best, and only chance as I see it, in moving forward without so much bloodshed. The other, which I'm not sure is off the table, is a complete invasion and destruction of Palestine and then starting over. I think there's real support by some for that. Which I find very hard to accept.

@Ynotisay [quote]The other, which I'm not sure is off the table, is a complete invasion and destruction of Palestine and then starting over.[/quote]

I think that this will eventually happen but without the starting over part. I think we are witnessing the next stage in this process right now.

@Burnley123 Yeah. This is different. Israel has now fired weapons in to Palestine, Syria and Lebanon. The next stage of this process could be very, very bad for humanity.