Trump is just a selfless and misunderstood martyr

@Burnley123 Sorry man I was about to reply but fell asleep yesterday night.

Silvio wasn't really a neoliberal, nor a fascist; his ideology was simply "[i]whatever gives me the most votes[/i]". As you said yourself, at the time moderate-rightwingism was peaking (but not necessarily neoliberalism, at least not here) so it would've hurt his image taking a far-right position. However, far righters had key roles in his government, even ministries: think of Fini, Bossi, La Russa (Meloni's party co-founder) and Meloni herself. Had his political career started now rather than in 1991, I wouldn't be any surprised seeing him embracing a position that would be at least as authoritarian as Trump's (heck, just look at his controversial declarations in 2022; many were saying he was going insane but probably he was just gambling on realigning himself to better fit today's RW/populist electorate). Similarly, neoliberalism did absolutely benefit him but is also extremely unpopular once it folds out (see Thatcher), so he's been intelligent enough not to get his own face associated with it. An opposition member (Prodi) or even a technocrat (Monti) were the perfect scapegoat to do the dirty work for him.

[quote]Berlusconi had all the populist tendencies and played the part of the anti-corruption candidate in spite of being the most corrupt[/quote]
To use an American neologism I think that's called «draining the swamp»? 😜

[quote]I think that the EU as an institution does offer some tepid defence to the far-right takeover of Europe. Whatever they claim in public, Italian politicians like Meloni and Salvini know that they can't go it alone, especially as leaving the Euro would lead to a banking collapse. [/quote]
Since Brexit and the aggression of Ukraine, rightwing populists in the continent have indeed abandoned the idea of leaving the union, but they're now speaking of «reforming» it, so they're equally dangerous. Reforming it like Orbàn "reformed" Hungary?

[quote]Correct me if I'm wrong but the word 'fascist' seems to have lost its stigma in Italy. [/quote]
I'm not sure about this point because neo-fascism has never had a real stigma associated with it among right-wingers, indeed see above the point of far-righters having been in Berlusconi's governments just fine for decades. I would also say that neo-fascism isn't really at its peak now here, I'd say that was either during the years of lead (1970s), when it was militant, or even if you want during Salvini's era (2015-19?); Meloni campaigned as a party of nostalgics but her government is resembling much more a continuation of Berlusconi's, than of Mussolini's, in practice.

[quote]The US doesn't need a far-right party because the Republicans are mostly there anyway[/quote]
The Republican party is indeed far more authoritarian than Meloni's, if you ask me, at least thus far. Attacks on culture, democracy, institutions and civil rights aren't anywhere as prevalent here under Meloni as they're in the US with the Republicans controlling [i]only [/i]the judiciary and several states..

[quote] I think that the Democrats are insane for letting Biden run again because a generic Dem (like Gavin Newsome) would beat Trump easily. For some reason, they insist on putting Trump against a man north of eighty who is losing it.[/quote]
That's if the goal is winning against Trump; but the US' Democrat Party is a neoliberal institution at its core, so the main goal is preserving the capitalist status quo. Winning with a more progressive candidate may be seen as a much worse outcome than losing to Trump, from the perspective of a hardcore neoliberal.

Remember that the sole reason that Biden et al. try to appease progressive is that they need the progressives' vote to win an election, not because they're progressive themselves. If America had a parliamentary system you could bet that people like Biden and people like Sanders would have nigh zero chances of being in the same party, at most they would form a coalition [b]after [/b]the vote but they certainly wouldn't run campaigns together.

That said I don't think Biden is a bad candidate personally; I had much lower expectations before seeing how he would tackle the Russian situation.

@Elessar This is a great reply and I would get a BC if it was on the first comment on my post. I have a few things to say but it's late. I need to sleep too. 👍

@Burnley123 [quote]Reforming it like Orbàn "reformed" Hungary?[/quote]

Yes, that is very much the danger and I've read a lot about Hungary. I don't know if Meloni has the political skill of Oban or whether the right can muster as much cohesive support as Fidez but that is the danger. No offense but the traditional instability of Italian politics will protect it for a while.

[quote]That's if the goal is winning against Trump; but the US' Democrat Party is a neoliberal institution at its core, so the main goal is preserving the capitalist status quo. Winning with a more progressive candidate may be seen as a much worse outcome than losing to Trump, from the perspective of a hardcore neoliberal.[/quote]

I do agree somewhat with this. The democrats are neoliberals and very beholden to corporate interests. However, the level of polarisation in US politics, the social liberalism of the dem base and the hatred of the right means that there is only so far they can or will go. I've actually been slightly impressed with the Biden administration for doing more than I expected but I had very low expectations. They also make some tepid attempts to regard the left as a junior coalition partner and adopt some of their policies. This would probably change if the left came close to dominating the major centre-left party (as happened in the UK).

Speaking of that, Keir Starmer and his people are worse than the Biden administration. They are busy kicking out leftists on spurious charges and copying the policies of our conservatives. They really are just brazenly cynical and pathetic. They will probably win on a low turnout and change nothing. Not because they can't but because they don't want to.

The Dems absolutely want to beat Trump. I don't think that the Democrat Party left has a decent candidate now that Bernie is too old. Mariane Williamson is the best they can come up with and she got nowhere last time. Elizabeth Warren would be backed by the left if she hadn't knifed Bernie in the last primary, but she did. The 'moderate' wing of the Democrats has a much much stronger bench so I don't think that they would be worried about losing the primary. It's more than Biden and his advisors just want to hold onto power., rather than letting anyone else have a go: Even if the successor would have the same politics, they would have different ministers and aides/.