Where do Conservatives get the impression that socialism means not having money or the government paying people not to work?

@gol979 socialism at its core advocates for workers owning the means of production and increase in public services

@Guitarman123 not sure workers can own huge corporations. I think some form of socialism can be a net benefit but only on a smallish scale......socialism encourages centralisation of power. Im fairly sure the idea of a central bank would appeal to this social construct too. We should devolve power as much as possible, socialism doesnt allow that imo

@gol979 it's supports nationalisation and common ownership to give workers as much control over their own destinies as possible and that the state provides for taking care of public services such as the NHS which goes against what the Conservative government stands for which is why they are under funding it and doing what they can to destroy it so they can make it private and more profitable

@Guitarman123 yep. A bloated state. Socialism seems to be statism on steroids. Voting as country with millions of diverse people and many communities is like weeing in the wind. We need to devolve power as much as possible and socialism doesnt allow that. In the end socialism (most systems will do this) will oppress anyone who wants to live their life differently from the socialist construct

@gol979 private ownership which you seem to support exists solely to make profits for the private capitalist bosses at the expense of the working class people and the strikes going on in the UK and US at the moment prove that to be the case as does the fact that during the industrial revolution people worked up to 16 hours with little breaks and in horrendous conditions not only in where they worked but also where they lived which lead to illnesses and deaths. Today people such as amazon drivers are working for ridiculously long hours with little breaks which shows that although the system has changed a hell of a lot in many ways it has stayed the same and keeps regular people who simply want to live a simple life down in the dirt and constantly in debt whilst working simply to survive

@gol979 people are already oppressed in the capitalist system, especially those who don't follow the dog eat dog attitude that this system attempts to convince people is the natural way to get by in life end up stuck in a hamster type wheel of work, eat, sleep and repeat. If they are lucky workers get to live in small flats that only just healthy enough to not be considered dangerous. In Conservative governments unemployment in the uk has always risen as again the tories only care about private ownership and profits, so much so that they ignore the struggles of the majority to satisfy the greed of the minority

@Guitarman123 i havent said anything about private ownership.....but wouldnt workers owning the means of production be private? Btw, im not supporting the current system which is quite frankly insane. Extreme control over the economy.....we are not in a "free market", we are in an almost totally controlled economic system. Much like socialism will do

@gol979 yes like you said any economic/societal system "oppresses" those that don't want to or fail to participate in it. Homelessness is nothing but a form of punishment for those not able to perform under Capitalist conditions.
At least under Socialism housing and healthcare are provided.
Also any Socialist state is under attack by the US making it much harder for them to advance. Mixed economies in Europe on the other hand are at least doing better than the US.

I don't think that the nationalisation and centralisation is the problem...the lack of democracy is. The people need to be able to vote on policies and implemntations.

@PrincessOfHell voting on policies and implementations in this large scale will do absolutely nothing. Theres no accountability for bloated states and mega corps. If your argument is "well, socialism is better than ultra controlled capitalism" the bar is incredibly low. Plus we have had thousands upon thousands of years prior to these societal systems, which all seem to be about control and monopolies of power, socialism included

@gol979 you pretty much have by saying socialism wants to centralise power which by doing so puts the power into private capitalist bosses who workers have to sell their labour power in order to earn a wage. Common ownership is where workers and in some cases customers own a particular business together equally and all have a say in how its ran and decide their own hours so their personal lives aren't compromised

@Guitarman123 are you saying socialism doesnt centralise power? Its about the collective so how can it not centralise power? And are you saying only socialism can give good work life balance? My personal opinion is that in the end socialism will oppress the people that it claims to represent. Most social/economic systems do......including this version of capitalism

@gol979 I'm saying it's about putting power back to the working people and to end any sense of exploitation and alienation of the people who are already oppressed by the capitalist system

@gol979 the fact that workers rights that they now take for granted exist as does public healthcare proves that socialism works for the people