I accidentally took home with me some top secret, national security classified documents

@hippyjoe1955 I’m sure the FBI is questioning whoever took them and whether Trump was aware of this.

@Lila15 The records were not stolen. They were given to him by the archivist. The archivist also knew where they were stored. They had already asked to see the records and were given full access to them. The FBI acted illegally and with malice. They are afraid that Trump will win his lawsuit against them and were looking for his evidence of their wrong doing. The FBI was founded to be corrupt and throughout its history it has been just that.

@hippyjoe1955 Where did you find the information that the archivists gave him the documents? Didn't a lawyer for the former president sign an affidavit stating all records had already been returned, and then when the FBI came to do a legal search in response to a search warrant, more records were found? I am sorry, somehow your information and mine differ considerably.

@samueltyler2 Do you think the president goes to the archives and rifles through the files on his own? Really? The practice has been that the outgoing president is given certain documents by the archivist sometimes at the president's request at other times at the archivist's discretion. They are boxed and sent home with the president as a going away gift. That is well established tradition that I became aware of when Carter left office. It didn't start with Carter from what I can gather.

@hippyjoe1955 I don't know where you get your information from. no one in any media service has said that. as a matter of fact, one question being currently asked is who actually did pack the boxes that contained the classified material?

@samueltyler2 the archivist. Not sure why you find it that difficult. Ever been in a major file room? The files are in by number. You just don't walk in and take the file off the shelf.

@hippyjoe1955 Have you ever been in a major file room? If so, what major filing room? Have you ever been in the president's quarters? Do you think he kept the files in numerical order? The description in January when the National Archives first requested the files that had been taken, they were brought back in boxes, I believe 15. When the FBI did its search, they were again described as in boxes. In the medical record file rooms, that I have been in, there is a system as to how files are kept, certainly not in random boxes.

@hippyjoe1955 [quote]So you think the president goes to the records room[/quote] No one needs to specify Trump's process; the key fact you're trying to obscure is that Trump indeed had illegal possession in violation of the Espionage Act.

[quote]The records were not stolen. They were given to him by the archivist.[/quote] And you know this how??
[quote] The practice has been that the outgoing president is given certain documents by the archivist[/quote] And you know this how??

Links? Quotes from the archivist?? What have you got for a source???

My guess is your source is some dark bodily orifice and you'll spend the next hour pretending you have source when in fact you made it all up.

@hippyjoe1955 Do people arguing 45 can do this or that actually know any of the processes that the National Archives does for releasing Presidential records? And hopefully they do know that since the 1970s those records are no longer considered private right? Thank Nixon for that. So they have no place being in a private residence of a former president. His residence was not a sanctioned Presidential library which the National Archives has oversight of in the end.

@Justme22 actually Nixon didn't do what you think he did and every president since Nixon has taken documents to his residence and even put them in his library. Ever been to a presidential library. Obviously you have never been to a major archive before. I have and I know the hassle of getting a document as innocuous as the number of tax based foreclosures in the 1930s. A friend of mine was doing research on that subject and went to the provincial archives. He needed a special clearance and then they only brought him the documents they thought he could read. He was not allowed to take them home because of their historical value but he was able to read all the documents in the few boxes they brought to him. I have also been in the records center of a major hospital. Without a map and compass you would have no way of finding a particular file. The numbers are deliberately jumbled so the files are more accessable. However you have to know a lot of information before you could even expect to find out if your grandmother once took the pill or not. The president does not just stroll over and wander through the racks picking his choice documents. That is not how things are done and it is foolish in the extreme to even thing that is how it is done.

@hippyjoe1955 but, it appears that the norm was not operational in this situation. Let us all calm the rhetoric and see where it goes!

@samueltyler2 Why bother calming the rhetoric? The FBI is utterly corrupt as is the DOJ. Lets do something about that first.

@hippyjoe1955 who do you trust them? The oath keepers, proud boys? You know how democracies fail, when law and order fails.

@samueltyler2 trust who,

@hippyjoe1955 You do know that a Presidential library is maintained by NARA and not the private individual right? The records of a presidential administration are not private they are owned by the US Government and the people. Selecting items for a presidential library is not done by a single individual but a committee usually from a group from the former administration along with NARA officials.

I have been to an Archives many times and even know archivists at NARA. You are talking about how the records arranged once they are in NARA's possession in regards to how they are organized on the shelves.

But in this case, we are talking about records that NARA knows existed but never had possession of even though they should have once 45 was out of office. I am not saying or foolish enough to imply that 45 went over and pulled things from NARA shelves. I am saying that they never made it NARA's hands in the first place because they were in his residence or boxed up before the rightful owner, NARA and US Govt. had a chance to review them. Hence the reason they had a subpoena and search warrant to retrieve them. Here's a bit more facts about presidential records for you to argue about.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/donald-trump-is-not-classified-records-boss.html

@Justme22 and the NRA had full access to all of Trump's documents. If that is all you have you have nothing.

@hippyjoe1955 [quote]and the NRA had full access to all of Trump's documents.[/quote] FALSE!! (BTW, the issue is not access but control of the documents.) Trump, in response to a subpoena, even denied he had any more documents, thus triggering a fully LEGAL search warrant.

[quote]The former president returned 15 boxes of material to the National Archives in January, but the Justice Department issued a subpoena in May for documents that it believed were still at his club. On June 3, counterintelligence officials with the Justice Department’s national security division went to Mar-a-Lago to collect remaining documents with classified markings.

At that point, at least one Trump lawyer signed a statement saying material with the classified markings had been returned, according to four people familiar with the document, although it was not clear specifically what the statement attested to. The two lawyers on site for the meeting who worked with Mr. Trump were Mr. Corcoran and Christina Bobb.

But officials then used a subpoena to obtain surveillance footage of the hallway outside a storage room at Mar-a-Lago and saw something that alarmed them. They also received information from at least one witness who indicated that more material might remain at the residence, people familiar with the investigation said.[/quote]

@hippyjoe1955 It is a fact that they did not have access or they would not have requested to have them back. Again it is not common or legal to take things when leaving office since the passage of the presidential records act.

@Justme22 Please do some actual research and stop relying on MSNBC. All the presidents have taken documents home with them upon leaving office. Do try to think for once in your life. Obama took 30,000,000 pages of them.

@hippyjoe1955 You are mistaking presidential libraries with homes. Once a president is out of office the records of the administration go to NARA. Like every other government employee the records go to NARA. Presidential libraries are not run by individuals. They are administered by NARA. I am not relying on MSNBC just the law and standard govermental archival procedures. You might want to look them up rather than attempting to insult me.

@Justme22 So where is Obama's library? He took 30,000,000 pages home with him.

@hippyjoe1955 These records were brought to the Obama Presidential Library with the assistance of NARA. Again a NARA facility, not his residence. NARA arranges these records and ensures access and security.

@Justme22 Do you remember a lawsuit against Bill Clinton? He took some classified information home and was sued to recover the tapes. The case went to court and the court AND The DOJ agreed that what the president takes home is basically his. Clinton never returned the information even though it contained phone conversations he had with world leaders.

@hippyjoe1955 [quote]Do you remember a lawsuit against Bill Clinton?[/quote] No, I remember no such thing. If it were real, it would appear in news accounts. Got any links? No?? I didn't think so, [b]LOL!!![/b]

@ElwoodBlues So maybe you should change the battery in your beanie. The prop is spinning a bit too slow. Well then again you do have a Phd in errors so there is that. You are pretty good at making errors. Good thing that whey you wear those gigantic red shoes no one takes you seriously.