Cons could handle the social topics of the day, but when push comes to shove

@Convivial if so he should be punished! Let us not get ahead though, let us see the evidence.

@samueltyler2 i agree about the evidence ... But they did remove 15 boxes of it

@Convivial i don't want to get excited, he manages to get off without any punishment. I think the really weird thing is that despite all the horrible things he has done throughout his life, if he gets punished for removing documents from the white house, it will be like Al Capone finally being jailed for tax evasion.

@samueltyler2 true... But it also maybe just the start

@Convivial I want all his enablers punished, perhaps even more than I want him punished!

@Convivial Trump had the authority to declassify classified documents.

@Heartlander he had that authority when he was POTUS, but, he didn't, and now, he is just a citizen, without such power!

@samueltyler2 I would imagine that any documents he had would have been obtained prior to his leaving office, in which case he had both classifying and declassifying authority.

This brings up the question about the management of classified documents and what seems like a disregard for the accountability of classified documents by upper level government officials. The accountability entails knowing where the documents are at all time, with sign-out and sign-in requirements, including documenting when the documents are destroyed or transferred elsewhere.

The Clinton e-mail scandal, as well as incidents by Petraeus, Powell, Berger, Trump seems to suggest a pretty casual attitude when compared to the foot soldier's need to "guard this with your life" expectation.

@Heartlander maybe, maybe but... But he had no right to remove them

@Convivial

We don't know what rights he had or didn't have about removal. If he didn't have that right why has it taken so long for the Biden administration to retrieve them?

Ad of course, neither did Hillary have a right to possess them. Didn't they eventually end up on Anthony Wiener's laptop? Sounds like they should send a daddy wagon to round up everyone who mishandles classified documents and cart them all to jail.

@Heartlander my point was that he actually could have avoided the problem of possessing classified materials had he declassified them while in office. He did not do that, so he can not claim that power now that he is not in office. But, more importantly, after the Nixon fiasco, Congress passed a law stating that all Whitehouse materials are property of the US government. Removal of them is this theft. Stealing historically valuable documents is particularly heinous.

@samueltyler2

But not particularly heinous for Sandy Burger or Hillary Clinton ?

What's a venial sin for Democrats is a mortal sin for Republicans and deserving of an exorcism :)

@Heartlander he was caught with government property once and slapped on his wrist. It appears as if he continued the same activity. You wouldn't let your kids get away with that. I hear that in NY today, he consistently "took the fifth." Although he is entitied to do on that, didn't he once say that "only the guilty take the fifth?"

@samueltyler2


I'm reminded of how the Clintons took White House furniture with them the they left the White House :)

Apparently, whoever make it to the top of the Washington totem pole have a sense of entitlement whereby their share of the American pie comes out of the middle, and the rest of us get the crumbs. For every indiscretion, failure, thievery or whatever you believe Trump may have done seems to be more than matched with such actions by the Clintons. The big difference being that when Democrats do it it's a venial sin with immediate dispensation and a plenary indulgence by the main stream media.

Regarding the raid, it's still not clear whether it was a part of a criminal investigation or simply for the sake of retrieving what the some believe to be classified documents. Considering how loosely Clinton, Petraeus, Burger, Powell and other high ranking people have casually mishandled classified information, it will be interesting to see what the FBI is up to.

Oh, regarding the 5th, it sounds like a set-up whereby they would use a civil deposition as a pathway for a criminal charge elsewhere in case they could find contradictions. Declaring property and real estate valuation for tax purposes is such a messy area that practically anyone could be charged and penalized.

I remember once putting myself on the tax roles of a certain state and was asked about the value of our home furnishings and possessions. I said I really hadn't thought about it, so how about $15,000? The tax lady said something to the effect: "you are crazy, no one has that much stuff, I'll put you down for $4,000." Duhhh?? OK.

Very colorful whataboutism, congrats on that.

@Heartlander

@Heartlander you are very inventive! Do you think any law enforcement agency, particularly the FBI, would be granted search warrant to investigate a former government official, let alone a former president, unless there was evidence that suggested a crime was committed and that evidence would be found as a result?

I don't honestly remember any remote val of furniture by any prior administration, but, do you equate that to possession of classified documents and those labelled as top secret? Really?

@samueltyler2 Well, considering the casual handling of classified material by Clinton and others, it didn't seem to be a bigger deal to them than when they took the White House furniture.

@Heartlander again, you are trying hard to skirt the issue, what classified material did Clinton handle casually, did he take any into his private home after he left office? what white house furniture did they take, did they have permission, were furniture of historical value to the US?

as to the alleged furniture, I'd suggest you look at the discussion:
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/oct/01/viral-image/viral-image-wrongly-accuses-clinton-stealing/

@samueltyler2 Was it 32,000 classified emails on her home server? And like 13 or so mobile devices and multiple different unprotected phone lines?

I remember that "guard this with your life" responsibility for classified materials from my military days. I remember the news stories and briefings of the cold war days where any transmission over common carrier or airwaves was too risky for classified materials.

@Heartlander she has permission to use as private server, and it turns out, that she was told by Colin Powell to do that. How do you know the server was unprotected? How many classified documents did she keep after leaving office?

Do not through your BS about your military days, I served as well, so you have no monopoly. How many federal servants use common carriers for cell service vice, why did the secret service scrub their phones after January 6th? Do not even try to claim routine service of the phones, when my work with law enforcement required new equipment, we still kept copies of all documents!