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When will we cut the bullshit both sidesism?

I keep hearing how this is left/right politics as usual, because, if the shoe was on the other foot, Republicans are sure that Democrats would have been ok with an attempted insurrection by force.

That might be true, despite the fact that Gore didn't even pursue a legal challenge, much less an armed insurrection, but it doesnt make what Trump tried to do right, and if Gore had called for Civil War, it still wouldn't excuse Trump's alleged actions.

So Trumpists really believe that two wrongs can make a right?

Or is is a matter of the ends justify the means?
That’s the definition of "whataboutism". The person never denies or gives any justification for what his guy did, but simply claims someone else did it, too.

Except in this case, no other sitting president incited an insurrection. Trump will go down in history as the only one who tried to destroy the system simply because he lost his re-election bid.
@bijouxbroussard And tRump is old and unhealthy, so he will likely die of natural causes without spending a day behind bars.
Abstraction · 61-69, M
@bijouxbroussard Trump is an opportunistic, maniacal personality who was assisted by Putin and others. They come and go.
What's truly disturbing is so many (certainly not all) of the republican party and supporters sold their soul, values (if they have any), the ideals America held true, law, truth, anything to have power. They are ready to believe and promote any lie or rationalise anything Trump said or did, up to and including insurrection against the USA. I can't respect that kind of intellectual dishonesty. It disgusts me. Their forefathers would have been ashamed as well.
Vin53 · M
Except there were no "2 wrongs" there was only trump and his cult members attacking our capital in a coup attempt.
@Vin53 No, I was clear. What don't you understand?
Carissimi · F
You are so ignorant, I can hardly stand it. 🤦‍♀️@Vin53
spjennifer · 61-69, T
@Vin53 In a way I kind of wonder what exactly tRump would have done had the insurrection succeeded? Had they been able to get a hold of Pence, would they have really hanged him? This would have been a precedent for a 25th Amendment as the VP would have been assassinated and the sitting President complicit in the assassination by inaction? It would have taken a 2/3rds Majority in both Chambers to enact the 25th, would they have gotten it with all the turmoil happening or would the Military have taken over till order could be restored?
cycleman · 61-69, M
Trump commited a coup attempt.
He should be arrested and sent to prison as the trail proceeds. Hopefully he will be sentenced to life in prison. And no more internet to raise funds.

He also has pay back everyone who has donated to him after Jan. 6. So sad what suckers people can be falsely misled to give their money away for.
Peapod · 61-69, F
@cycleman
He also has pay back everyone who has donated to him after Jan. 6. So sad what suckers people can be falsely misled to give their money away for.

THAT alone should put this man in prison.
windinhishair · 61-69, M
The Cult is so swayed by Trump's personality that it overrides reason. It is the same as with other maniacal leaders of the past. They would gladly welcome an end to democracy as long as Trump could be president for the rest of his life, without a thought given to what comes post-Trump. So in this case, the short-term ends justify any means of installing Trump as Emperor for life.
Carla · 61-69, F
@windinhishair from what i understand from past posts...
What comes after trump is junior, ivanka, and then barron.
I reckon ivanka is out now that she has shown herself to be a liberal, or a rino...
🤔Maybe a lizard people?
BlueVeins · 22-25
The actions Trump and Gosar took up until that day & during the riot are entirely unprecedented in modern American history. The fact that there's even debate among leftists as to whether or not riots during the BLM protests were justified tells me that we never would've supported such a brazen attempt at overthrowing democracy.
Peapod · 61-69, F
How anyone can justify anything Trump and his minions did on January 6th goes beyond my comprehension.

Nothing, and I do mean nothing, can justify what he did against the will of the American people.
TexChik · F
@MistyCee You know someone else higher in the investigative chain?
@TexChik Sadly, I don't, but there was a proposal for a bipartisan commission which got shot down.

But I thought the FBI was full of deep state toadies and the like. Skipping the liberal BS about them not supposed to comment on open investigations and all that jazz, even assuming someone did issue an "exoneration" of Trump, why should I buy it?
TexChik · F
@MistyCee Dont. I am not asking you to. They said it not long after it happened, and that will come up in the grand jury room if the libs are silly enough to run with it. I am assuming the lib brain trust doesnt have another card to play and so they are going to ride that one into the ground just like they did the Russian collusion lie. Its all about character assassination with lies, not about having proof. As you know that is how libs play because they cant run on what they want to do for this country. Any conservative that plans on re election in Novemeber wont be serving on that committee.
TexChik · F
Trump, according to the FBI's investigation, did nothing and there was NO insurrection. The "armed" people seemed to be antifa and they left as soon as people walked into a wide-open unguarded capital building, and the only gun death was caused by a black capital police officer who shot an unarmed white woman (active military) who was seen on video actually trying to get people not to go into the capital. That officer has never answered for his actions or been investigated because the biden admin swooped him up into protective custody.

Gore knew he couldn't win a lawsuit claiming the direction of the " hanging chads" meant voter intent was for him.

Alleged? You waft back and forth between Trump is guilty and alleged, which is it?

Like I said before you are functionally a lib propagandist.
TexChik · F
@Jenna76 You need a life, stay away from CNN. 🙄 Are all liberals disgusting foul mouths? Clean up your act.
Jenna76 · 36-40, F
@TexChik Sorry not a liberal...careful they dont pass red flag laws in texas cuz they be taking your guns away you nutjob
TexChik · F
@Jenna76 If you talk like one, and act like one, must be one. Why do you people always lie about who you are? Red flag laws in Texas? Dream on. Oh, and work on you grammar too foul mouth. Its just as disgusting.
gol979 · 41-45, M
They are all on the same side, and its not yours. If the last few years hasnt shown that "representative democracy" is a scam i dont know what will
Graylight · 51-55, F
"It's on both sides" is the same tactic of sharing/assigning blame to the victim in a situation. It forcefully and incorrectly levels the playing filed by gaslighting someone into believing this is an issue that involves their wrongdoing.

The Democrats do not act like the GOP and conservatives. This is borne out. One need only look at history to discover it or look into any articles regarding current allegations and charges within government.

He didn't hit you because you nag him to much without letting him rest; he hit you because he has a problem all his own. Both sides have not caused this morass we find ourselves in; that was the willful inaction and bad action of the GOP. Period.
Graylight · 51-55, F
@gol979 In Conspiracyville, I'm sure. But then there are those with a HS diploma.
gol979 · 41-45, M
@Graylight maga jabs and biden boosters. The continuation of emergency decrees, war the list is endless. Just vote harder
Graylight · 51-55, F
@gol979 Yes, because voting magically blows away things we don't want to deal with.
Ynotisay · M
I think they know that Democrats would never storm the capitol. But imagine if it happened. I wonder if their current stance would be in play?
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
"Gore didn't even pursue a legal challenge..."

As usual, your political bias has led you WAY off the factual mark. 🙄

There were PLENTY of legal challenges by BOTH campaigns.
Read about them here, for example:

https://www.britannica.com/event/Bush-v-Gore
BlueVeins · 22-25
@LeopoldBloom Kinda moving the goalposts there. Personally idc about the point being made bc it doesn't seem to have an impact on the larger issue, but it's a valid correction from what I can tell.
@Thinkerbell he dropped them after the SC. Good point.
@BlueVeins Both Gore and Trump mounted legal challenges. However, Gore didn’t spend months working his followers into a tizzy over baseless claims of a “stolen election.” Nor did he plot with his henchmen over attempting an illegal coup. So it’s a valid correction that fails to take the larger picture into account. Therefore it’s misleading.
monte3 · 70-79, M
Absolutely it is only the end justified the means.
And I don’t believe for a second that liberals would have heeded a Gore call to arms. 🤷‍♂️
Jackj, before he blocked me tried to argue that Hillary tried to overthrow the republic every bit as much as trump. Largely based on the Durham investigation, which has got on fbi guy suspended for one week. You can’t make this stuff up
And it was treason by tRump and his nutjobs.
It's really just a way of playing defense for the Republicans. Nobody actually believes that what Al Gore or Hillary Clinton did was anywhere near as bad as what Trump did. But by saying "both parties" do this, it helps to normalize the Republican attack on Democracy.
Pretzel · 61-69, M
let's let the investigation continue

if he was culpable he's no longer in office and subject to prosecution.

IF he was involved (which is not proved in hearings) - then he should be properly punished.
Ynotisay · M
@Pretzel Nah. There's been a whole lot of evidence presented in this wasn't previously available to the general public. Can't argue that. Unless you're not about transparency is government.

But yeah. I think most are aware that the DOJ is where criminal indictments come from. This is about potential criminals referrals, right?

But your "dog and pony show" comment speaks volumes. Maybe you don't think it should have been investigated in the first place. Not sure what to say there. Well, I do. But I won't.
Ynotisay · M
@Pretzel A troll? Not sure you have a handle on what the means. Maybe it's a real American thing. Whatever.
RedBaron · M
@Pretzel Not trolling. Just not sure why you replied to your own post with "not sure what you are trying to say." Why is it necessary to resort to name-calling?
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
America defines success by the win.. Not the cost of the winning to dignity or Ethics. So the end justifies everything.😷
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
👍 @MistyCee People in trumps 'circle' testified under oath that they and others had told him that what he was doing was illegal, he knew that it was illegal, and he persisted and that is "willful blindness", his 'intent' was to willfully 'break the law' for his own personal gain.
Jenna76 · 36-40, F
Eastmana even told Hershmann...gore didnt have a basis to do it, kamala harris would not have the authority to do it (2024) but you / Pence should do it anyway.
I agree with you completely Misty it's just I think the repukes are imprevious to reason. Bravo though, well stated.
BackyardShaman · 61-69, M
You can make a flow chart of what occurred, leave out the words Republican and Democrat, and it shows pure criminal activity.
[MistyCee] Did you watch the J6 hearing today, Tue, 6/21 ?
@softspokenman I missed it
Anything new?
Fukfacewillie · 56-60, M
What other foot -- losing?
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
@Carissimi
Coffman drove to Capitol Hill from Alabama on Jan. 6, 2021, in a pickup truck loaded with powerful weapons, and is believed to have been the most heavily armed defendant during the attack. In his truck, investigators found a small arsenal of molotov cocktails, a 9mm handgun, a rifle, a shotgun, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, a crossbow with bolts, machetes, camouflage smoke detectors and gas-filled Mason jars used to make napalm (a kind of homemade bomb). Coffman, age 72 at his sentencing in April, was also carrying two handguns at the time of his arrest. All the guns were loaded.
https://time.com/6133336/jan-6-capitol-riot-arrests-sentences/

In addition to the actual arms Coffman brought to the party, any object used as a weapon to inflect bodily harm on others (including fire extingquishers, barricades, tree limbs, and batons & shields wrested from police officers) are legally considered weapons for assault charges and at least four have been convicted or plead guilty so far to assaulting police officers.
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
@Carissimi The general definition of insurrection is engaging in an effort to overthrow government authority by violence; it need not be armed. Seditious conspiracy also falls under the general definition of insurrection, which legally does not require "arms".

Under 18 U.S.C. § 2384, “seditious conspiracy” occurs when two or more persons:

conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/understanding-insurrection-and-sedition#:~:text=In%20a%20constitutional%20democracy%2C%20sedition,or%20the%20rule%20of%20law.

At least 10 Proud Boys have been charged with seditious conspiracy.
@Carissimi Insurrection: [noun] an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government.
Marriam-Webster Dictionary

Weapon: [noun] a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage . fists, pipes, flag poles, bear spray, tear gas, they are not 'Nuclear weapons', but they were all used as weapons against the Capital police.
This message was deleted by its author.
BlueVeins · 22-25
@CopperCicada Sorry, but I can't tell what you're referring to, there's been soooooo much shit that I've lost stuff in the shuffle? Could you link me to a relevant resource on the subject?
@CopperCicada It was an attempted coup. They were armed and planning to stop a legal vote by government officials. That they weren’t successful doesn’t mean it wasn’t an insurrection—just a failed one.
This message was deleted by its author.

 
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