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TinyViolins · 31-35, M
Not directly, but it is very reminiscent of the voting restrictions that were put into place leading up to the Jim Crow era. It's not, on paper, racist in any context since these laws get written absent any mention of race. But I'll tell you why it is considered racist in practice.
The primary type of photo ID people have and posses is a driver's license, although other forms do exist. If you take a city like New York, for instance, only 25% of people there have a driver's license. And that's indicative of the lack of a need for a car to get around. It's not isolated to NYC either since many people in cities and urban areas have robust enough public transport to never really need a car, especially now with the popularity of ride-sharing apps.
No car means no need for driver's license, so many people go without one and since there is no other pressure for a photo ID, many go without. Even for jobs, alternative forms of IDs are accepted as long as they can prove your identity. This isn't the case for voting as this type of legislation requires very specific forms of photo ID.
Still the government offices to get a photo are still out there and available, so what's the problem? The problem is that the wait times differ very drastically depending on whether you're in a rural setting or an urban. In DMVs across the country, the average wait time to be seen is in the heart of an urban area is 2-3 hours, where as in rural areas, the wait times are usually under 5 minutes. That's a huge difference, and that kind of time commitment is a little too burdensome for people to acquire a piece of plastic that they don't even need.
If you begin to require a photo ID in order to vote, those multi-hour wait times in urban areas are only going to rise and make it more undesirable for people to acquire it. Then you also have the issue of cost. No states that I'm aware of issue photo ID cards for free, so on top of the time and transportation commitment, you also have a cost burden associated with getting a photo ID, which is a needless expense for those that are already poor or struggling. By the statistics, the people that are most likely to be financially unable to bear those costs are young people, black and Hispanic people, and single mothers, all of whom are also statically likely to vote Democrat.
But wait, there's more.
In addition to all these other hoops people have to jump through in order to vote, these state-issued photo IDs also require very specific documents to establish proof of identity, which many people may not have on hand or may not know about. So you are adding even more time and financial pressure for people to acquire these requisite documents, and many end up waiting in line at the DMV completely in vain because the documents they do have might not be good enough. That can easily dissuade people from wasting more hours of their life for something they don't need.
What this entire ID requirement for voting process does is make it as difficult as possible for urban people to vote. Black people are overwhelmingly more likely to live in urban areas, so legislation like this disproportionately targets black people. It also weeds out working-class people since they not only have to find several hours to spare in their schedule, they have to actually spend the hours on the bus trip to and and from the licensing office, finding someone that can take care of their children for an extended period of time, spending more hours waiting their turn in line, getting told that they don't have the proper ID and having to repeat the process, and then spending their hard earned money for something they'll only use once.
With the already long lines that voters face in urban districts, policies like this only make it needlessly and disproportionately difficult for black and brown people to vote. Hence why it is seen as racist. There is zero proof of wide-spread voter fraud, and even in the exceedingly rare cases that there is voter fraud, it's never close to enough to swing an election. Policies like these are completely pointless and only intended to rig the results against the interests of urban voters.
The primary type of photo ID people have and posses is a driver's license, although other forms do exist. If you take a city like New York, for instance, only 25% of people there have a driver's license. And that's indicative of the lack of a need for a car to get around. It's not isolated to NYC either since many people in cities and urban areas have robust enough public transport to never really need a car, especially now with the popularity of ride-sharing apps.
No car means no need for driver's license, so many people go without one and since there is no other pressure for a photo ID, many go without. Even for jobs, alternative forms of IDs are accepted as long as they can prove your identity. This isn't the case for voting as this type of legislation requires very specific forms of photo ID.
Still the government offices to get a photo are still out there and available, so what's the problem? The problem is that the wait times differ very drastically depending on whether you're in a rural setting or an urban. In DMVs across the country, the average wait time to be seen is in the heart of an urban area is 2-3 hours, where as in rural areas, the wait times are usually under 5 minutes. That's a huge difference, and that kind of time commitment is a little too burdensome for people to acquire a piece of plastic that they don't even need.
If you begin to require a photo ID in order to vote, those multi-hour wait times in urban areas are only going to rise and make it more undesirable for people to acquire it. Then you also have the issue of cost. No states that I'm aware of issue photo ID cards for free, so on top of the time and transportation commitment, you also have a cost burden associated with getting a photo ID, which is a needless expense for those that are already poor or struggling. By the statistics, the people that are most likely to be financially unable to bear those costs are young people, black and Hispanic people, and single mothers, all of whom are also statically likely to vote Democrat.
But wait, there's more.
In addition to all these other hoops people have to jump through in order to vote, these state-issued photo IDs also require very specific documents to establish proof of identity, which many people may not have on hand or may not know about. So you are adding even more time and financial pressure for people to acquire these requisite documents, and many end up waiting in line at the DMV completely in vain because the documents they do have might not be good enough. That can easily dissuade people from wasting more hours of their life for something they don't need.
What this entire ID requirement for voting process does is make it as difficult as possible for urban people to vote. Black people are overwhelmingly more likely to live in urban areas, so legislation like this disproportionately targets black people. It also weeds out working-class people since they not only have to find several hours to spare in their schedule, they have to actually spend the hours on the bus trip to and and from the licensing office, finding someone that can take care of their children for an extended period of time, spending more hours waiting their turn in line, getting told that they don't have the proper ID and having to repeat the process, and then spending their hard earned money for something they'll only use once.
With the already long lines that voters face in urban districts, policies like this only make it needlessly and disproportionately difficult for black and brown people to vote. Hence why it is seen as racist. There is zero proof of wide-spread voter fraud, and even in the exceedingly rare cases that there is voter fraud, it's never close to enough to swing an election. Policies like these are completely pointless and only intended to rig the results against the interests of urban voters.
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TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@Budwick I already have one.
My question is: Why start demanding them now? Since when has photo ID been required to vote? Where in the Constitution does it say anything about needing an ID to vote?
Sounds like people making up new rules in order to tilt the game in their favor
My question is: Why start demanding them now? Since when has photo ID been required to vote? Where in the Constitution does it say anything about needing an ID to vote?
Sounds like people making up new rules in order to tilt the game in their favor
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@Budwick It already is, by and large. There's never been any proof of wide-spread election fraud, just the same old anecdotes of dead people and pets voting that people have been parroting after every election for as long as I can remember. It's a coping mechanism for sore losers. Where's the evidence to back up these claims?
Voting ID has never been required in this country, so we're playing by the same rules we always have. Making up new laws is akin to the grandfather clause, literacy tests, or poll taxes. It's designed to make voting more difficult for certain types of people. Let's not pretend that a photo ID requirement is fair or impartial when it impacts different groups of people very differently
Voting ID has never been required in this country, so we're playing by the same rules we always have. Making up new laws is akin to the grandfather clause, literacy tests, or poll taxes. It's designed to make voting more difficult for certain types of people. Let's not pretend that a photo ID requirement is fair or impartial when it impacts different groups of people very differently
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
@Budwick
And as easy and accessible as possible to all legal citizens, right?
The point is - everyone wants / needs voting to be lawful and accurate - right?
And as easy and accessible as possible to all legal citizens, right?
laotzu92 · M
@TinyViolins I was in New York City in January. I had to produce an ID with proof of vaccination 4 to six times a day: to eat somewhere, to go into the hotel; to attend an event, even some stores.
It used to ne the "example" of someone unlikely to have an ID was some sharecropper in rural Alabama. Now, its the busiest city in America?
C'mon, man!
It used to ne the "example" of someone unlikely to have an ID was some sharecropper in rural Alabama. Now, its the busiest city in America?
C'mon, man!
laotzu92 · M
@dancingtongue That is a nonsensical question. An exercise in sophistry, something only a dancing tongue can perform. Every citizen is entitled to vote ONCE. And everyone ELSE is entitled to know a person is entitled to vote, being in the right district, and is voting once. That is what is protected under the Constitution.
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
@laotzu92 But they are all also entitled and guaranteed equal access to the ballot box without a set of barriers being put up that affect only certain segments of society and not others.
laotzu92 · M
@dancingtongue There is NO such barrier. This is a purely fabricated objection. Even the illegals (sorry, the migrants) at the border are getting IDs.
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
@laotzu92 You and others keep using this as justification supporting your position. 1. If it is so easy to get fake photo IDs, why do you want that to be the standard for proving your right to vote? Seems contradictory. 2. Why punish the honest, hard working folk who don't want to get a fake photo ID and for whom getting a legal one is a major hassle costing them wages and time because such services are not routinely provided in their communities?
laotzu92 · M
@dancingtongue Who said it was easy to get fake IDs? The border ones are valid. But even so, it doesn't mean there shouldn't be IDs. We shouldn't have laws because some people break them---that is your argument?
It is NOT a major hassle beyond what we have to endure any day of or lives to do anything to get an ID.
Stop the crap.
It is NOT a major hassle beyond what we have to endure any day of or lives to do anything to get an ID.
Stop the crap.
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
@laotzu92 Perhaps not a hassle in your neighborhood, but it is in others. And to answer the original question, it is not racist, it is economic that affects rural whites significantly as well. I wasn't the one who raised the issue of fake photo IDs, BTW. It was another in this very thread who said the illegal immigrants he sees at Walmart all have fake IDs to buy things. It was his defense of how getting photo IDs is not hassle, and when I asked him if fake photo IDs were so easy to get why did he think photo IDs would safeguard elections he said he didn't want to talk anymore.
laotzu92 · M
@dancingtongue I again assert that in the US it is not an undue hassle to get an ID. Your or another kept saying it was difficult in NYC because most people don't drive.
You also ignore the fact that IDs are essential in virtually all transactions today. This is a false and fraudulent argument.
You also ignore the fact that IDs are essential in virtually all transactions today. This is a false and fraudulent argument.
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
@laotzu92 And I again assert that if I had not fortunately finally found a copy of my birth certificate I could not have gotten one, because the county I was born in said they have no record of it and my passport has expired since I no longer had a need for it. Like a lot of poor people, I was born in a private home, my mother assisted by a midwife, at a time when all records were by hand -- not even ballpoint pens. Most counties have not digitialized their birth records and/or lost some in the process.
But you are right that this whole issue is a tempest in a teapot -- make photo IDs equally accessible to all citizens and there is no problem. And the only reason that the photo ID keeps coming up as the focal point of debate over voter suppression legislation is because that is what the legislation's sponsors want the debate to be about because there are a lot of good arguments for requiring it. Not so much on the rest of the crap they have loaded into the legislation to make it hard for the poor and socially deprived and rural population to easily vote.
That said, I am calling it a night and moving on to enjoying the evening.
But you are right that this whole issue is a tempest in a teapot -- make photo IDs equally accessible to all citizens and there is no problem. And the only reason that the photo ID keeps coming up as the focal point of debate over voter suppression legislation is because that is what the legislation's sponsors want the debate to be about because there are a lot of good arguments for requiring it. Not so much on the rest of the crap they have loaded into the legislation to make it hard for the poor and socially deprived and rural population to easily vote.
That said, I am calling it a night and moving on to enjoying the evening.
laotzu92 · M
@dancingtongue Good night.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@laotzu92 How would you feel if states started requiring vaccine cards in order to vote? Would you feel that it was fair since you needed a vaccine card to get in anywhere else and it makes sense to extend the same courtesy to voting? Or would you feel that requiring a vaccine card to vote was an unnecessary burden and that the legislation was created to weed out certain people from voting?
Maybe now you'll understand why the sudden push for this kind of law is seen as biased and restrictive. If people really wanted to vote, they could just get vaccinated. It's even easier to get than a photo ID because it's free and more widely available.
Maybe now you'll understand why the sudden push for this kind of law is seen as biased and restrictive. If people really wanted to vote, they could just get vaccinated. It's even easier to get than a photo ID because it's free and more widely available.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@dancingtongue
You only need to exist to QUALIFYfor an ID.
You only need to exist to QUALIFYfor an ID.
Budwick · 70-79, M
Budwick · 70-79, M
@dancingtongue More complaints.
bradhuskers · 56-60, M
@TinyViolins
Your bullshit argument fell flat immediately.
A driver's license has nothing to do with it. You can now apply for and receive a legal photo ID.
AGAIN, a driver's license is not necessary.
I'll take it a step further and say that your entire existence on planet earth, is literally based upon the bullshit propaganda fed to you since you were born. You lack basic critical thinking skills and come off as a duped and manipulated sheep.
The premise for your argument was on shaky ground from the start.
Years and years of bullshit propaganda have made you what you are today.
Nothing you say is rooted in logic or common sense, but rather the twisted false narratives you are fed each and every day.
Your side is full of pathological lies.
"Don't say gay" is a prime example.
The bill down in Florida, has nothing to do with that left wing moniker.
But again, your side is comprised of mentally disturbed pathological liars.
Your bullshit argument fell flat immediately.
A driver's license has nothing to do with it. You can now apply for and receive a legal photo ID.
AGAIN, a driver's license is not necessary.
I'll take it a step further and say that your entire existence on planet earth, is literally based upon the bullshit propaganda fed to you since you were born. You lack basic critical thinking skills and come off as a duped and manipulated sheep.
The premise for your argument was on shaky ground from the start.
Years and years of bullshit propaganda have made you what you are today.
Nothing you say is rooted in logic or common sense, but rather the twisted false narratives you are fed each and every day.
Your side is full of pathological lies.
"Don't say gay" is a prime example.
The bill down in Florida, has nothing to do with that left wing moniker.
But again, your side is comprised of mentally disturbed pathological liars.
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