Now that it has been proven that Trump is a criminal and one of the 5 worst presidents in US history, why do people still support him?
I am thinking most of his supporters are criminals.
46-50, M
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
"Proven" by whom?
I thought the American Constitution is based rather on the British one in dealing with those accused of criminal acts; particularly the vital points of [i]Habeus Corpus[/i], open jury trials and burden of proof on the prosecution.*
Irrespective of the politics of what is anyway a foreign country to me, and irrespective of his
political and business c.v., Mr. Trump is a citizen of a country that does not "prove" anyone guilty of criminal offences other than by due charge and trial that establishes the facts beyond all reasonable doubt. (Or by the defendant eventually changing his or her plea to 'guilty'.)
Whatever your personal opinion of his ideology and abilities as a politician and property-speculator; has Donald Trump been charged with criminal acts and brought before a Court of Law that has established his guilt or innocence?
Unless and until then he is in the same position as any other US citizen merely suspected of breaking the law: perhaps a suspect in the legal not "social media" sense, but still innocent.
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*(These protections are non-existent in many, even Western, democratic European, countries whose judiciaries are based on the "Napoleonic Code". One of the many reasons many Britons wanted to be out of the EU was a fear the [i]bloc[/i] wanted to impose the same Napoleonic system on the UK in the interests of what it calls "Harmonisation".)
I thought the American Constitution is based rather on the British one in dealing with those accused of criminal acts; particularly the vital points of [i]Habeus Corpus[/i], open jury trials and burden of proof on the prosecution.*
Irrespective of the politics of what is anyway a foreign country to me, and irrespective of his
political and business c.v., Mr. Trump is a citizen of a country that does not "prove" anyone guilty of criminal offences other than by due charge and trial that establishes the facts beyond all reasonable doubt. (Or by the defendant eventually changing his or her plea to 'guilty'.)
Whatever your personal opinion of his ideology and abilities as a politician and property-speculator; has Donald Trump been charged with criminal acts and brought before a Court of Law that has established his guilt or innocence?
Unless and until then he is in the same position as any other US citizen merely suspected of breaking the law: perhaps a suspect in the legal not "social media" sense, but still innocent.
-----
*(These protections are non-existent in many, even Western, democratic European, countries whose judiciaries are based on the "Napoleonic Code". One of the many reasons many Britons wanted to be out of the EU was a fear the [i]bloc[/i] wanted to impose the same Napoleonic system on the UK in the interests of what it calls "Harmonisation".)
LordShadowfire · M
@ArishMell I can field that one, actually.
You're right. There's enough evidence to make it appear that he has ties, but that's not good enough for the justice system. They are going to keep gathering evidence until they have enough to convict him. And if it's anything like some of the state level cases I've heard of, they'll actually go above and beyond, charging him with numerous charges they expect him to be able to easily defend against, in the hopes that at least one sticks.
You're right. There's enough evidence to make it appear that he has ties, but that's not good enough for the justice system. They are going to keep gathering evidence until they have enough to convict him. And if it's anything like some of the state level cases I've heard of, they'll actually go above and beyond, charging him with numerous charges they expect him to be able to easily defend against, in the hopes that at least one sticks.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@LordShadowfire Yes, I see that; and obviously no-one can be prosecuted without sufficient good evidence.
However, until enough such evidence has been amassed to first press charges then to satisfy a court sufficiently of proven guilt, any suspect is considered innocent in law whatever politicians, opinion-columnists and social-media sites publish.
A judge has already made it difficult to hold a fair trial by having been reported very widely as saying the former President almost certainly broke the law. A judge can opine on general points of law, but should never suggest the outcome of an individual case not yet brought to court.
Stacking up spurious charges like a legal blunderbus, gambling on at least one succeeding, is not good justice either. It has eerie echoes of countries that lack such niceties as open courts and prosecution burden of proof.
Having been a president does not place Donald Trump above the Law. If he is suspected of criminal acts then it is right he is investigated and if he has a case to answer, then he is charged and tried; but in the proper manner, with the whole process openly, entirely fair and above-board. If it is not, the outcome could be very harmful indeed.
What seems to escape many Americans is that their country's febrile domestic politics is reported internationally, and this pre-judging may be as bad for the nation's reputation abroad as it is for justice within the nation.
However, until enough such evidence has been amassed to first press charges then to satisfy a court sufficiently of proven guilt, any suspect is considered innocent in law whatever politicians, opinion-columnists and social-media sites publish.
A judge has already made it difficult to hold a fair trial by having been reported very widely as saying the former President almost certainly broke the law. A judge can opine on general points of law, but should never suggest the outcome of an individual case not yet brought to court.
Stacking up spurious charges like a legal blunderbus, gambling on at least one succeeding, is not good justice either. It has eerie echoes of countries that lack such niceties as open courts and prosecution burden of proof.
Having been a president does not place Donald Trump above the Law. If he is suspected of criminal acts then it is right he is investigated and if he has a case to answer, then he is charged and tried; but in the proper manner, with the whole process openly, entirely fair and above-board. If it is not, the outcome could be very harmful indeed.
What seems to escape many Americans is that their country's febrile domestic politics is reported internationally, and this pre-judging may be as bad for the nation's reputation abroad as it is for justice within the nation.