Politics & News

Only logged in members can reply and interact with the post.
Join SimilarWorlds for FREE »

Afghanistan is a disaster

[image deleted]See the pictures of Afghanistan and hear the news and it’s more and more of a disaster. It’s due to the Biden ministration total bungling and it will lead to more and more terrorist attacks in the western and especially in Europe. How are earth did such a bungling old man - he doesn’t appear to know the time of day - get to lead a nation in a democracy? I hope the gullible people who voted for him and who are misled by the media realise what they have done in putting such an incompetent man in charge and so many lives at risk

This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »

SW-User

Sure, as president, Biden [i]could [/i]have decided to reneg the treaty Donald Trump signed last year with the Taliban to pull all American troops out of Afghanistan by May 31st this year (pretty sure that was the original date agreed upon by the Trump administration and the Taliban.. or was it April... would have to look it up... it got pushed back, obviously, because it would have been even more rushed). Yes, as president, Biden could have attempted to renegotiate. But as the leader of America, the same America that Trump represented by signing the treaty last year -- and a treaty is an oath with a clearly stated intention to follow through, make no mistake -- had Biden done an about-face and failed to abide by the terms agreed upon, then the Taliban would have been within their rights to 1) call America a liar & a bad actor, and 2) dump the promises they made in that treaty, too, and then the situation would have been even worse.

It was a bad choice that had to be made, no matter which way it went.

I would point out that Bush and Cheney were the ones who got us into Afghanistan in the first place (and all based on a lie -- the 911 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, not Afghanistan, and Bin Laden's source of power and money remained in Saudi Arabia even long after he set up shop for a while in the mountains). We should never have been there, and we certainly should never have tried to "nation-build" there for 20 years. It was LONG past time to leave.

Could the leaving process have been smoother? Absolutely. Both administrations -- Trump's and Biden's -- should have heeded the warnings of the CIA and other intelligence agencies. Trump had a long track record of completely ignoring the CIA, but Biden should have listened, too; both presidents were warned that the moment America pulled its troops out, Afghanistan would begin to fall to the Taliban (and come on, we all knew that would happen; we've known it for more than a decade). The CIA's projections of how long it would take ranged from 18 months on the optimistic side, to a matter of days on the pessimistic. It took a few weeks. It was fast, and shocked some people, but didn't shock others.

It is what it is. Had Trump finished enacting the treaty he signed with the Taliban, and pulled America out before his presidency ended, I daresay it would have been even more rushed, and probably even more catastrophic. He had ordered his generals to do it, but they pointed out the logistics of it all, and by then, Donald had his hands full with trying to stage a coup.

1-25 of 38

Grvstu · 70-79, F

It’s always amuses me how liberals try and blame Trump for the mess Biden has made of things. It was on his watch and it was his withdrawal strategy which caused the disaster. Now they and the liberal media in America are trying to convince the gullible that it was Trump who was to blame. No one but an idiot would believe that@SW-User

SW-User

@Grvstu So are you saying that Trump was not the one who signed the treaty with the Taliban to pull America out of Afghanistan by early 2021? That is not a matter of politics; it's a matter of history. Look it up. All Biden did was follow through with a promise Trump made. The timing and strategy were concreted last year. It would have been even more of a mess. In the military, things take months to move. Things were set in motion long before Biden was in the White House.

Grvstu · 70-79, F

Biden has torn up other legislation Trump made. So now he’s hoping he is bound by this one? Absolute rubbish. First of all he was not bound it and second he has executed it in the most bungling way possible. But you believe you’re liberal media gullible boy. I am just angry for all the lies which will be lost through his bungling@SW-User

SW-User

@Grvstu So you are saying "it's not Trump's fault for agreeing to a terrible treaty and timeline, it's the fault of the person who inherits the presidency." So, if Biden had signed it but Trump had carried it out, it would be Trump's fault, right?

Tell me how ANY American president -- Trump, Biden, anyone -- could possibly have pulled out of Afghanistan with it NOT being an utter mess. Tell me. How would you have done it? Seeing as you think you know best.

PatKirby · M

@SW-User

[quote][i]But as the leader of America[/i][/quote]

I don't know what country you're from, but in this country the president is not a 'leader'. The president is a [i]representative.[/i]

SW-User

@PatKirby Fair enough, but a president does perform a leadership role, wouldn't you say?

Grvstu · 70-79, F

It’s not pulling out of Afghanistan which is the problem but it’s the way he has done it like closing the second airport against the advice of his generals. Leaving millions of dollars worth of equipment to the terrorists. Including 200 planes. Leaving all the details of those will work with the Americans to the Taliban so they can get round chopping peoples heads off of people they consider traitors. Well done Joe! Your human rights record is in history! People like Mr Derby O’Gill support you.@SW-User

SW-User

@Grvstu You have dodged my question. I'd say that's predictable, given your politics, but perhaps you simply didn't see it. Here, I'll copy paste:

So you are saying "it's not Trump's fault for agreeing to a terrible treaty and timeline, it's the fault of the person who inherits the presidency." So, if Biden had signed it but Trump had carried it out, it would be Trump's fault, right?

Tell me how ANY American president -- Trump, Biden, anyone -- could possibly have pulled out of Afghanistan with it NOT being an utter mess. Tell me. How would you have done it? Seeing as you think you know best.

Grvstu · 70-79, F

You make me laugh. I’m not dodging your question at all[. I’m just saying your liberal president made a terrible mess of things and that is history and he will go down in history as an utter mess. No point in arguing with you because you are just swallowing what the idiot liberal media says over there. Read the British paper and you will get the true story. I noticed Biden is falling out with the British press because they are telling the truth about his bungling@DarbyOGill]

SW-User

@Grvstu By not answering my question, you are, in fact, dodging it.

My point is that it was going to be a bungle no matter when it happened. Even if it happened four years ago. Even if it happened ten years hence. The entire situation over there was a corrupt mess (and the corrupt players were on all sides -- American military, UK military, Australian military, Afghan military, Taliban, and all sorts of contractors in-between, and I daresay plenty of politicians over the years, too).

The Afghan people did not want the US & its allies there. Some things have changed for the better there during their tenure (matter of opinion), some for the worse (also a matter of opinion). Mistakes were made... from day one, right up to yesterday. Mistakes made by EVERY American administration, and UK administration for that matter, too. Administrations make mistakes (like, when Britain decided to lump completely separate groups together into one "nation" and call it "Iraq" at the end of WWII, for example... lol).

If your point is that Biden's fledgling administration is the only one to have made mistakes in Afghanistan, then I'm sorry, but you need to go back to school and read some history.

Grvstu · 70-79, F

Never mind. Get some education. Pointless arguing with someone who is so prejudiced and can’t see the stupidity that this dreadful administration has acted with. Typical of the liberals blaming everybody else and failing to take responsibility for their own cock up@SW-User

SW-User

@Grvstu lol. I'm pretty sure I'm quite a bit ahead of you in that department, especially if you refuse to be honest and actually read some history of Afghanistan... might as well start with what the Soviet Union did there (or even earlier would be better), and keep on reading right up through to the present. Then the Allied bungle that's been happening there not just over the past few months, but [i]over the past 20 years[/i], will make more sense to you, as you'll see it in a larger context.

Grvstu · 70-79, F

Sorry you’re certainly not ahead. You are totally behind me. Just get some British papers and read about the bungling that Biden has indulging and the whole of his idiot administration in putting all the lives at risk. It’s not about the larger context it’s about this withdrawal. They have left 7000 people at risk of execution because of their bungling and millions of dollars worth of equipment.. I wish you guys a get real and get your head out of the clouds. This is peoples lives we are talking about not politics. Get really stop talking rubbish@SW-User

SW-User

@Grvstu And again, my point is, it would have been a disaster if it had happened last year under Trump, too. Perhaps even more of a disaster. There's no way of knowing. Both Trump and Biden could have listened to the CIA better than they did. And honestly, given what we know of Afghanistan and the Taliban and the long history of violence there (we're talking centuries), pretty much NO American president could have succeeded in having a totally "smooth" withdrawal, even if the US military were to occupy that country for [i]another[/i] twenty years. The US and its allies were not wanted there; they should never have gone there in the first place. They were not invited. Yes, in retrospect, given some of the changes that occurred during the past 20 years of occupation, some Afghans (especially those who support women's rights, I would think, and especially the younger generation) actually benefited from the crooked puppet administration the Allies put in place. But there was also a lot of corruption and horrible stuff going on behind the scenes. Don't paint pre-Biden American presidencies to be innocent, because they were not. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Looking the other way while corruption abounds is the same as condoning it.

Grvstu · 70-79, F

You are just not getting the point. No when his painting pre-Biden presidencies to be innocent, just people like you are trying to shift the blame for Bidens total bungling of the withdrawal by blaming them. What we are saying is that Biden has completely bungled what could’ve been an orderly withdrawal. He has completely messed things up and thousands of lives are going to be lost as a result. I have friends who are on the ground and women and children are in grave danger because of what he has done this is reality not Theiry@SW-User

SW-User

@Grvstu p.s. And since you mentioned the UK, I would point out that [i]following[/i] America into a war that should never have happened does not let the UK off the hook. The fact that the UK didn't lead the charge does not make them any less culpable.

SW-User

@Grvstu Your intention is to blame everything on one man. That's just naiive and, well, for lack of a better word, ignorant. Good luck with that attitude :-)

Grvstu · 70-79, F

You are totally brainwashed by the media. Of course that is not the intention. But the blame for the bungled withdrawal lies with Biden. Who else. You are typical of the people who elected a lame leader @SW-User

PatKirby · M

@SW-User

For someone who proceeds from a presumptive position, what you're assuming is a bit much, which says a good deal about you. First, you didn't know that our politicians are representatives obligated to We the People. Although some constituents may convey the image of sheep, the vast majority of us are intelligent, responsible, and dutiful voters who elect representatives (federal, state, local, etc...) to serve Us - not the reverse.

Second, I can answer your dodgy question straightaway. Ultimately, it does not matter whose problem it [i]was[/i] nor who [i]inherited [/i]it. Solving the issue at hand is the objective. Prescient politicians eagerly seek out these negative moments as opportunities to prove themselves. Lesser politicians, well they just never seem to be up to the task. These are your junior class, run-of-the-mill, wanna-be politicians who need remedial lessons from the senior class.

Wiping one's hands clean may be how [i]your [/i]politicians handle problems by blaming others so they can absolve themselves of responsibility, obligation and duty lest their reputation be tarnished. But that's not how responsible politicians handle it.

They handle it by publicly admitting failure, generating a plan, and then executing it. The upside is you take the "high road" and fix the problem, all the while the constituents recognize that and remember you during the next general election. Then you move on to the next achievement. Honorable politicians [i]earn [/i]their pay. Lesser dishonorable politicians make excuses then run and hide.

PatKirby · M

@SW-User

[quote][i]it would have been a disaster if it had happened last year under Trump, too. [/i][/quote]

You do not know this. No one can. One can assume so but that's just speculation. One ton of speculation, anecdotes, rumor, gossip, innuendo or hearsay does not = one ounce of evidence.

SW-User

@PatKirby pffft. You are the one making assumptions here. Lol

SW-User

@PatKirby Read some military history and get back to me buddy.

SW-User

@PatKirby Responsible politicians like Donald Trump? Lol.

Grvstu · 70-79, F

Happen to be talking about present day buddy. Not your wild theories. @SW-User

Grvstu · 70-79, F

@SW-User responsible politicians like Biden who has put thousands of lives at risk of genocide.

1-25 of 38