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the lab leak theory is wild lol

it requires you to accept the chinese government made ALOT of big brain 200 IQ geopolitical gambles, and then it requires you to accept that they [i]all[/i] paid off lol.

>Developed the latest of the yearly coronavirus strains
>released it in their own country
>counted on westerners spreading it back to their countries
>western governments having such a breathtakingly incompetent response that huge swathes of the population got wiped out

even if it was true it, lol, at any point it could have been interrupted by any basic precautions in the west.
SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
Why does it need to be intentional?

That's a pretty specific, and not necessarily accurate theory.

It is VERY contagious. The most likely scenario(assuming it broke out of the lab) is that it accidentally left on somebody's lab coat and spread that way to the Wuhan wet market and beyond.
SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
[@44863,Elessar] So you inserted yourself into a discussion I was having with another user here, and responded to that point with your own 2 cents about Trump's speculation and what you felt was a lack of proof.

I acknowledged your point, and asked you to comment on this in light of the new evidence revealed, and included a link to said evidence.

You childishly and obviously ignored my queries and now you want to come back with this horseshit about me not acknowledging your points?

Here's some ad hominem for ya:

You're just another smug idiot left wing western european who thinks he's superior to those with which he disagrees. You're quick to jump on people when you feel they haven't properly acknowledged a point, and yet here you are doing the same, and trying to gaslight me in believing otherwise. It's quite telling that you could not let go of Trump in this discussion. It really seems to upset you personally that he could have been correct about this, even though by happenstance instead of having concrete evidence.

I'm surprised a little. I thought you were better than that.
SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
[@44863,Elessar] [quote]You've acknowledged it? Where?[/quote]

My first reply to you:

[quote]Sure, that's fair[/quote]

[quote]it totally sounded like you were desperately trying to shift the focus to other points in order to *not* acknowledge it. From throwing conspiracies to even resorting to ad hominem attacks.[/quote]

That was you. You are projecting.

[quote]I'll add the opinion about my political orientation from a rightist conspiracist to the list of things I couldn't give a f*ck about, I suppose. Calling for coherence isn't "jumping at people" nor "gaslighting" in my book, it's filtering out bullsh*t and trying to have a conversation that doesn't end up in some pathetical whataboutism, insults, or evasion from the kernel of the discussion[/quote]

Why don't you lead the way then Elessar? Be the change you want to see. You behave in the same manner as the people you wish to condemn. You shit all over people you think you are intellectually superior to. I think it really bugs you that people you hate could be correct, it is afflicting you with cognitive dissonance. I speculate it makes you angry, for if these people are correct about this, they will never shut up and go away. And I think that's what you want, you want Trump and his supporters to go away. (And you are making baseless speculations about me as well, so don't get all pissy because I am doing the same.)

[quote]"Correct by happenstance but not by concrete evidence" is still "baseless accusations"[/quote]

There's no disagreement here. I'm sorry you misunderstood.
QuixoticSoul · 36-40, M
The “accidental leak” theory was always possible, but the evidence for it was purely circumstantial and virtually nonexistent for a long time, which is why it was initially discounted.

After a year of searching for an animal source and emergence of some new information, it has become somewhat more plausible, but still highly speculative and rooted in circumstantial evidence at best.

Problem is that we can’t trust Chinese exculpatory evidence, and are unlikely to get anything definitive so ultimately we still don’t know and anyone proclaiming certainty is probably ideologically biased.

[quote] even if it was true it, lol, at any point it could have been interrupted by any basic precautions in the west.[/quote]
That’s definitely true, nobody can be absolved of poor handling via finger pointing.
NoahB · 26-30, M
[@580625,QuixoticSoul] [quote]hat’s definitely true, nobody can be absolved of poor handling via finger pointing.[/quote]

oh believe me. they're certainly going to try (and succeed) if this baseless "china did it" narrative becomes publically accepted or even entertained.
The lab leak theory also wants you to think that scientists that lived in Wuhon......didn't get the virus outside of the lab. The lab folks were supposed to have gotten COVID in November....but no one has said how long COVID was already in Wuhon before it was reported. The scientist didn't live in the lab...they went home every night...out into the population of Wuhon and then came back into work every morning. So if Wuhon was so infected by November that the entire town was closed down...and it was.....why couldn't scientists have picked it up at home and brought it into the lab...instead of the other way around?? The lab theory has more questions than answers.......and is only being pushed forward by Rumpers who are dying to say "told ya so"......when they don't have a clue and never will.
QuixoticSoul · 36-40, M
[@539720,anythingoes477] Wuhan was not closed down in November.

[@960372,NoahB] The virus was not detected three months before in Italy.
NoahB · 26-30, M
[@580625,QuixoticSoul] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0300891620974755

"Our results indicate that SARS-CoV-2 circulated in Italy earlier than the first official COVID-19 cases were diagnosed in Lombardy, even long before the first official reports from the Chinese authorities, casting new light on the onset and spread of the COVID-19 pandemic," the researchers conclude."
[@580625,QuixoticSoul] There are at least 3 real time YouTube vids taken by a poster in Wuhan (from Australia) that shows travel had been curtailed completely in and out of Wuhan in November 2019. Vids of empty streets patrolled by cops in masks. Your information.....and what those living in Wuhan were posting to YouTube in November is not the same. I think I'll go with the ones that were living there..........not SW folks that make comments on here with no backing at all.
GhostPoncho · 46-50, M
Not really -- the lab itself studied Coronavirus. It's really common sense. Some facts which make it almost impossible the lab wasn't involved.

Wuhan Institute of Virology

In 2005, a group including researchers from the Wuhan Institute of Virology published research into the origin of the SARS coronavirus, finding that China's horseshoe bats are natural reservoirs of SARS-like coronaviruses.[12] Continuing this work over a period of years, researchers from the institute sampled thousands of horseshoe bats in locations across China, isolating over 300 bat coronavirus sequences.[13]

In 2015, an international team including two scientists from the institute published successful research on whether a bat coronavirus could be made to infect HeLa. The team engineered a hybrid virus, combining a bat coronavirus with a SARS virus that had been adapted to grow in mice and mimic human disease. The hybrid virus was able to infect human cells.[11][14]

It would be an insane coincidence if there was not a leek.
GhostPoncho · 46-50, M
[@960372,NoahB] Assuming that is true, I wouldn't be surprised given what we know about China's government. A Frontline talked a lot about the coverup, and more coming out every week. Okay, lol, you can have the last word, I promise!
SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
[@903658,GhostPoncho] The following article gives you a very exhaustive look at why it may have come from the lab. The overwhelming reason why they believe it could have been designed is that it has a feature that makes it very contagious. If one were to design a virus that is extremely contagious, this is the change you would make. The chances of it happening in the wild are extremely remote.

https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/
NoahB · 26-30, M
[@903658,GhostPoncho] okay lol, thanks for giving me the last word. Here it is: I like how when it comes to my statements which are provably correct you say "Assuming thats true" but when you bring up your unprovable statements its "common sense"
Northwest · M
3D Chess. Trump was a grand master 🤣

At this point, a lab leak is one of the possibilities. Accidents can and do happen.

The conspiracy theorists, however, claim that this is a manufactured virus. As in, genetically enhanced, then purposely released by the Chinese. That's bat shit crazy.
GhostPoncho · 46-50, M
[@9416,Northwest] Of course, the other side needs to take it to a Trumpian place.
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
I believe there is a very rational argument for a lab leak that doesn't require much of what you propose.

Effectively, it was an accident and China (along with other Eastern cultures), has a twisted sense of pride: lying about it's origin was much preferred over admitting a mistake.

Could virologists have been investigating a bio-weapon? Possibly. However, the Wuhan lab gets funding from many non-Chinese sources. Virus manipulation is happening in multiple labs around the world, and it's been happening for decades... not to engineer badness, but to learn and be prepared for what may happen in nature.

The international resistance to declaring it as "lab originated" stemmed from a desire to counter the anti-information campaigns of right-wing nationalists, not only in the US, but in a number of Western nations.

[b]When first you practice to deceive, what a tangled web you weave.[/b]

More likely than not, China completely underestimated how crazy this thing is. While they witnessed how weirdly contagious it is, they did NOT witness the mutation abilities, not until it started mutating in the west.

If this was a lab leak and China lied about it, they gained no strategic advantage. The best vaccinces have come from the West.

So, the right wing narrative that this was manufactured is pretty weak.
But the contrasting narrative that it is entirely from nature also fails to account for the fact that bats are not easily infected by Covid-19.

Even crazy people get the story partially correct sometimes.
NoahB · 26-30, M
[@802348,JoeyFoxx] [quote]Effectively, it was an accident and China (along with other Eastern cultures), has a twisted sense of pride: lying about it's origin was much preferred over admitting a mistake.[/quote]

yeah we definitely dont do that in america lmao
This message was deleted by its author.
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
[@960372,NoahB] I'm not absolving anyone. But, from a strictly cultural perspective, it's quite different.

Just last week, a Chinese official jumped to his death after his agency promoted a grueling marathon that resulted in the deaths of some competitors. It's quite common, much moreso than in Western cultures.

Of course the US hides the truth. We need only listen to the former President's admission that he knew how dangerous it was an intentionally kept it quiet.
Budwick · 70-79, M
The lab leak theory is 100% logical.
NoahB · 26-30, M
[@25801,DeluxedEdition] you guys are just on fire with the gif game lol.
DeluxedEdition · 22-25, F
[@960372,NoahB] wym just on fire
Budwick · 70-79, M
[@960372,NoahB] You are like wet sand with your logic!
This seems like one branch of a Chinese conspiracy theory based on the virus coming from a lab, but what about other permutations, like politicians and scientists in other countries getting paid to help it spread, funding anti-mask movements, fake cures, not to mention those investing in vaccine manufacturers.

Fauci, Biden, Trump, they all could be a part of it, as could doctors, nurses, computer and modem manufacturs seeking to profit from work at home.

"Seriously", this thing could be REALLY REALLY big.

Or not.
[@113373,TexChik] Yeah, no proof was my point, and I threw Trump's name on there so Biden and Fauci wouldn't be lonely.

Zuckerberg, Soros, Bill Gates, the Koch Brothers, the Clintons and Obama could all be part of it as well.
TexChik · F
[@479686,MistyCee] Soros seems very plausible from whst I have been reading
[@113373,TexChik] Now, if only we had a source inside the conspiracy to give us coded clues.
Gemini43 · 70-79, M
All they had to do was fuck around with something they didn’t understand, infect someone who subsequently went out and unwittingly spread it. What’s complicated about that. Here we have a nation with one foot in the Stone Age and the other striving to be a global superpower, who frankly are good at stealing other people’s ideas then selling it back to us with slave labour as its source of production. We’ve asked for this, now we are paying the price for dealing with ants!
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
[@962092,Gemini43] Declaring that China is part Stone Age seems to ignore the fact that the richest nation in the world has a disturbingly high infant mortality rate, not to mention an inability to feed everyone that lives there.

Before we cast stones, we should probably do something about the glass house we live in.
Iamonfire666 · 31-35, F
[@802348,JoeyFoxx] agreed!
QuixoticSoul · 36-40, M
[@962092,Gemini43] I work with a bunch of Chinese scientists, and your stereotypes are outdated and silly.
Mamapolo2016 · 70-79, F
Does the lab leak theory rely on it being an intentional leak?
NoahB · 26-30, M
[@663519,Mamapolo2016] it kind of does in the grand narrative of things. thats why right wingers are buying into it so hard.
Mamapolo2016 · 70-79, F
[@960372,NoahB] Only if you're prone to only listen and not think. How it's presented has little to do with fact, only spin.

Once it got here, it could have been handled far far better.
[@960372,NoahB] Then maybe you should call it the "deliberate leak theory", because an accidental leak is not w/out its plausibility.
autumn25 · 26-30, F
I just can't agree with the lab leak theory. Since it was found that the Novel Coronavirus was around long before 2020, who knows, it could have started in another country as a weak variant and unbeknownst to the person(s) who contracted it, spread it to others eventually sparking that contagious outbreak that was seen in China.
NoahB · 26-30, M
[@373017,autumn25] yep. ppl seem to think just because china took it seriously first that "it must have come from there"
GuiltyPleasures · 51-55, M
But, the Chinese government is so ethical and virtuous. I cant even fathom they would be up to such shenanigans. 😂
The theory is that they were studying the virus, and it got out due to poor safety practices.
NoahB · 26-30, M
[@1026,LeopoldBloom] yeah, thats been the theory since day one. and they have about just as much evidence as they did then as well
Iwashere2 · 36-40, M
If it’s a biological weapon,it’s a real shitty one
NoahB · 26-30, M
[@1056803,Iwashere2] imagine developing a bio weapon that gets owned when you wear a paper mask
Iwashere2 · 36-40, M
[@960372,NoahB] shhh…im waiting for right wingers to jump in saying that the vaccine is the weapon
smiler2012 · 56-60, M
{@noahb] yes ic does sound far fetched and i agree would make a good fantasy film
Heartlander · 80-89, M
Frightening thoughts.

Maybe WW3 won't be waged with a fw countries throwing nuclear bombs at one another, but with an attack by just a couple of people positive with a delay virus; and we won't even know that we're at war, or with whom.
Northwest · M
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-wuhan-lab-coronavirus-origin/2021/06/15/2fc2425e-ca24-11eb-afd0-9726f7ec0ba6_story.html

 
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