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lynncelestial · 31-35, F
Maybe have a bit more of a think why even though we knew the virus was a thing way back in last november, we decide to lockdown for a pandemic on the same month the US experiences the largest growth in employment in American history, under Trump. A lockdown that put 41% of businesses out of business forever.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@lynncelestial Nobody knew about the virus in November. And no, we didn't decide to lockdown for a pandemic on the same month the US experienced the largest growth in employment in American history.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@lynncelestial the "lockdown" was needed because we had no other way to prevent the virus from spreading faster and farther. Our health care system was at risk of being overwhelmed. We probably saved lots of lives. In fact, it is estimated, By the epidemiologist in Washington, that if the "lockdown" had started week earlier, over 100k fewer deaths would have occurred. As to what percentage of business will close forever, unless you have a crystal ball, no one really has any idea. If the darn administration and congress could learn to work together, businesses and jobs could be protected!
lynncelestial · 31-35, F
@samueltyler2 Imagine we just closed the borders to countries with cases
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@lynncelestial when would we have done that and which countries would you have included? Do you know that when the genetics of the virus found in the US was looked at, it more closely matched the outbreak in Europe than in China. Unfortunately, with current travel patterns, we would have had to know to cut off all air, water, train, auto, etc travel into the US probably before we really understood what was happening, if we did that in Dec, when, in retrospect, we know covid was already in Europe, perhaps it might have "worked."
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@samueltyler2 We didn't even cut off China tbh.
At a House subcommittee hearing on the coronavirus on Feb. 5, Ron Klain, White House Ebola response coordinator under the Obama administration, took issue with the characterization of the travel restrictions as a travel “ban.”
“We don’t have a travel ban,” Klain said. “We have a travel Band-Aid right now. First, before it was imposed, 300,000 people came here from China in the previous month. So, the horse is out of the barn.”
“There’s no restriction on Americans going back and forth,” Klain said. “There are warnings. People should abide by those warnings. But today, 30 planes will land in Los Angeles that either originated in Beijing or came here on one-stops, 30 in San Francisco, 25 in New York City. Okay? So, unless we think that the color of the passport someone carries is a meaningful public health restriction, we have not placed a meaningful public health restriction.”
Indeed, on Jan. 24, a week before the travel restrictions, the CDC confirmed two cases of the novel coronavirus in the U.S. from people who had returned from Wuhan, China, where the outbreak began.
“We don’t have a travel ban,” Klain said. “We have a travel Band-Aid right now. First, before it was imposed, 300,000 people came here from China in the previous month. So, the horse is out of the barn.”
“There’s no restriction on Americans going back and forth,” Klain said. “There are warnings. People should abide by those warnings. But today, 30 planes will land in Los Angeles that either originated in Beijing or came here on one-stops, 30 in San Francisco, 25 in New York City. Okay? So, unless we think that the color of the passport someone carries is a meaningful public health restriction, we have not placed a meaningful public health restriction.”
Indeed, on Jan. 24, a week before the travel restrictions, the CDC confirmed two cases of the novel coronavirus in the U.S. from people who had returned from Wuhan, China, where the outbreak began.
lynncelestial · 31-35, F
@samueltyler2 I'd close the borders to whichever and all countries had the virus, simple as. Is that prevention enough?
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@lynncelestial you did not read my comment. The outbreak in Italy was not identified as covid until later. The virus was already in the US by then. By the time the "travel ban" was imposed the virus was already here. We really didn't understand the virus that early, didn't understand its transmission, didn't know how to protect ourselves. We were unprepared because all of the previous preparations were discarded. We lacked adequate PPE for the health providers, so we didn't suggest the public wear masks, but then suggested wearing cloth covers instead. This was a very complicated problem, but as we learned more about the virus, we still.didn't take it seriously enough. You should read the editorial in the New England of Medicine which addresses the issue of lack of leadership at every level, it did not mention names, no specific blame. But it points out that the lack of leadership.led to delays in deAling with the virus and then the cascade of disaster resulting in the worst case per population, death to population in thenwotkd!
lynncelestial · 31-35, F
@samueltyler2 So you are suggesting trump should have put measures into place despite the fact that we knew nothing abut this "complicated problem". Something tells me people would have been moaning if he did, for being reckless or something. But are now moaning that he didn't do something about it, whilst also choosing to forget that he wanted to close borders of infected countries to do something about it. Seems some people want trump to be bad whatever he does, even if it means simultaneously holding two contradicting beliefs. I think if I was leading a team like that I'd just tell them to sod off and do things themselves if they think they are so much better and everything I do is wrong.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@lynncelestial have you listened to the Woodward tapes? Have you heard that in 2019 the administration ran a table top exercise and it predicted what effect a pandemic would have? If trump had listened to his own experts, to the very people he appointed, then instituted steps, while informing the public as the pandemic progressed, perhaps we wouldn't be in as bad a shape as we are. If he had been honest with the people rather than to keep things quiet, or whatever his specific words were at the time, things might be different. The models developed at several institutions differs bit, but all show the same findings, we waited too long before instituting social distancing and mask wearing.