This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
DownTheStreet · 56-60, M
Well, just to keep up to speed, this prompted Trump to "protectively" assert attorney client privilege."
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mueller-report-executive-privilege_n_5cd2e536e4b0a7dffccfb38a
We'll see how this plays out, but keep in mind, the entire House needs to vote on Contempt, so the Committee voting on it really doesn't mean much.
Also, I don't think you're right on this point:
Although I've seen this rumor here on SW and on some conservative sites, the last time I checked, it was only a "less redacted" report that was available to certain leaders in Congress, most of whom haven't bothered to look at it.
Keep in mind as this plays out, its all posturing, for the most part, on both sides, really.
From the big perspective, it looks like they sent Barr an overly broad subpoena, and when, instead of offering to comply with pieces and parts and negotiating from there, Trump/Barr stalled and said no, they moved forward with the Contempt thing.
This does not seem to me to be the Democrats finest hour, as opposed to say, the tax returns thing which seems to be fairly cut and dry, but they're starting to try to fight every battle with Trump since he's not giving on anything.
As I watch this stuff play out, personally, I'm trying to look for the correspondence, because statements from both sides tend to be pretty misleading and the press doesn't quite seem to be up to the task of distilling what's really happening very well.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mueller-report-executive-privilege_n_5cd2e536e4b0a7dffccfb38a
We'll see how this plays out, but keep in mind, the entire House needs to vote on Contempt, so the Committee voting on it really doesn't mean much.
Also, I don't think you're right on this point:
I have heard that ALL information in the Mueller report is available to Congress except for protected Grand Jury information.
Although I've seen this rumor here on SW and on some conservative sites, the last time I checked, it was only a "less redacted" report that was available to certain leaders in Congress, most of whom haven't bothered to look at it.
Keep in mind as this plays out, its all posturing, for the most part, on both sides, really.
From the big perspective, it looks like they sent Barr an overly broad subpoena, and when, instead of offering to comply with pieces and parts and negotiating from there, Trump/Barr stalled and said no, they moved forward with the Contempt thing.
This does not seem to me to be the Democrats finest hour, as opposed to say, the tax returns thing which seems to be fairly cut and dry, but they're starting to try to fight every battle with Trump since he's not giving on anything.
As I watch this stuff play out, personally, I'm trying to look for the correspondence, because statements from both sides tend to be pretty misleading and the press doesn't quite seem to be up to the task of distilling what's really happening very well.
@4meAndyou Sorry.
On Barr making a prosecutorial judgment on contempt, I don't think he did the right thing by making that conclusion, 1) without even reviewing the evidence, and 2) without a well reasoned legal analysis. I've posted on this before, and don't want to go through it again, but it would be a moot point (other than for propaganda) if Congress didn't take the bait and do it's job, as Mueller's report pretty much said it should do.
Barr got cute, basically, by adding his two cents, but no matter what Mueller or Barr may have concluded, Congress is not bound by it, and I think, has a duty to look at the report and decide if Congressional action is appropriate. I'm talking about impeachment, but not just impeachment. Could be legislation is warranted, and I'm still not clear on the counterintelligence angle.
On Barr making a prosecutorial judgment on contempt, I don't think he did the right thing by making that conclusion, 1) without even reviewing the evidence, and 2) without a well reasoned legal analysis. I've posted on this before, and don't want to go through it again, but it would be a moot point (other than for propaganda) if Congress didn't take the bait and do it's job, as Mueller's report pretty much said it should do.
Barr got cute, basically, by adding his two cents, but no matter what Mueller or Barr may have concluded, Congress is not bound by it, and I think, has a duty to look at the report and decide if Congressional action is appropriate. I'm talking about impeachment, but not just impeachment. Could be legislation is warranted, and I'm still not clear on the counterintelligence angle.
@4meAndyou Wait... Sorry again. If you meant by protecting Trump, what I meant was that Barr, by a short "non-summary", by his "prosecutorial judgment" on obstruction, and by his subsequent conduct, is working for Trump's interests politically.
I don't think he's the devil, I think Nancy was nuts to say he lied to Congress, and I do think he's being consistent with his views on executive power and the unitary executive thing, but I disagree with him on them.
I don't think he's the devil, I think Nancy was nuts to say he lied to Congress, and I do think he's being consistent with his views on executive power and the unitary executive thing, but I disagree with him on them.
katielass · F
Remember when eric holder refused to turn over materials in his fast and furious scheme that cost a BP agent his life? Well, for one thing, they didn't file contempt charges until well after 400 days but it wound it's way through the courts and by the time the courts finally ordered the doj to turn over documents it no longer mattered. He was long out of office and out of their reach. The only difference was holder was not refusing to release classified or grand jury documents, i.e. he wasn't refusing to break the law as Barr is refusing to do. In short, they don't have much of a leg to stand on. It's all for show. Barr knows this, he's not worried. But he's smart, he has offered certain of them an opportunity to view the less redacted report in person and not one of them has taken him up on it. So, like I said, it's all for show.
@therighttothink50
Pulling the curtain back to expose the grand wizard behind the shadow government may well be the fear driving the "all or nothing" Democrat war plan.
Considering how all the Democrats are on board as well as all their media stooges, there has to be some planning and coordination. What's commonly called "collusion" to bring Trump down.
It's like the Battle of the Bulge for Democrats, or their Tet Offensive. Their last gasp effort to save themselves. Let's remember that the Tea Offensive succeeded.
Pulling the curtain back to expose the grand wizard behind the shadow government may well be the fear driving the "all or nothing" Democrat war plan.
Considering how all the Democrats are on board as well as all their media stooges, there has to be some planning and coordination. What's commonly called "collusion" to bring Trump down.
It's like the Battle of the Bulge for Democrats, or their Tet Offensive. Their last gasp effort to save themselves. Let's remember that the Tea Offensive succeeded.
TexChik · F
Since it would be up to Barr to enforce said charge ... I think he’s pretty safe. Eric Holder has previously shown us just how useless a contempt of Congress charge is. They are just setting the stage to say all of the indictments that are supposedly looming would be invalid .
Looks like the Democrats in congress should be charged with Obstruction of Justice.
Boy have they gone overboard.
Barr has already given congress access to the report. And as far as Trump's tax returns are concerned, it would seem that the 4th Amendment is squarely on Trump's side. All for the same reasons why Big Clinton's medical records and Obama's college records couldn't be forced into public view by all the king's horses and all the king's men.
Boy have they gone overboard.
Barr has already given congress access to the report. And as far as Trump's tax returns are concerned, it would seem that the 4th Amendment is squarely on Trump's side. All for the same reasons why Big Clinton's medical records and Obama's college records couldn't be forced into public view by all the king's horses and all the king's men.
This message was deleted by its author.
This message was deleted by its author.
@SW-User I'll agree with you that I haven't seen Barr lie to Congress, and by contempt, I meant it colloquially (think Kavanaugh, although he was worse) rather than legally. Barr, I thought, handled himself really well, and the only time I saw him really being misleading was the questions about Mueller and the two letters, and it looked to me like he answered carefully like any really good lawyer should under cross examination.
I haven't seen what happened with the contempt vote to know exactly what the charges are yet, but assuming you're right about it just being about producing the full report to the entire Congress unredacted, I don't think it's likely to even get through the House vote. I kind of hope it doesn't, because Barr seems saner and more competent than anyone else in the administration. (That's an opinion).
Finally, as for the reason Barr was hired, I'd cite his "audition memo" as well as his prior performance with Bush, but I'm not claiming its totally objective.
Just my subjective impression that it played a big role, along with the fact that he's a pretty competent guy who was likely better respected on both sides of the aisle than anyone else who'd want the job.
I haven't seen what happened with the contempt vote to know exactly what the charges are yet, but assuming you're right about it just being about producing the full report to the entire Congress unredacted, I don't think it's likely to even get through the House vote. I kind of hope it doesn't, because Barr seems saner and more competent than anyone else in the administration. (That's an opinion).
Finally, as for the reason Barr was hired, I'd cite his "audition memo" as well as his prior performance with Bush, but I'm not claiming its totally objective.
Just my subjective impression that it played a big role, along with the fact that he's a pretty competent guy who was likely better respected on both sides of the aisle than anyone else who'd want the job.
@MistyCee FYI, I still haven't found a complete copy of whatever resolution was actually passed by the committee yet, but it looks like Gaetz offered some kind of amendment on Rule 6(e) and the Grand Jury thing which might take that off the table as far as requiring the AG to "break the law", and Nadler added something about the President's prophylactic assertion of Executive Privilege at Barr's urging, both of which, IMO, might change how this thing plays out before the Full House, if it even gets there.
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
AbbeyRhode · F
bowman81 · M
LMAO. If he would have given them the unredacted version they would want him charged with breaking federal law. Nope, you can't be compelled to commit a crime no matter how many times congress jumps up and down screaming you must.
By the way, all congress can do is refer the contempt charge to the Justice Dept. for prosecution. How far do you think that will go?
By the way, all congress can do is refer the contempt charge to the Justice Dept. for prosecution. How far do you think that will go?
4meAndyou · F
@bowman81 I am listening to Mary Gay Scanlon, representative from Pennsylvania, who swears up and down that Congress is asking Barr to OBEY the law. She is obviously full of poo.
Referring the AG of the United States back to the DOJ will flop on it's face, of that I am sure. However, that is not the reason for all of this. The reason is to smear Barr's good reputation, so that if he investigates the beginnings of the Mueller report they can say he is dirty.
Referring the AG of the United States back to the DOJ will flop on it's face, of that I am sure. However, that is not the reason for all of this. The reason is to smear Barr's good reputation, so that if he investigates the beginnings of the Mueller report they can say he is dirty.
Paperhearts · 61-69, F
4meAndyou · F
@Paperhearts He was the one who advised Janet Reno on the Independent Counsel Statute.
"On October 2011, 7,600 pages of documents were released that Issa claimed may have indicated Holder was sent memos in regard to Operation Fast and Furious earlier than he at first claimed,[122][123] contradicting Holder's sworn testimony before the House Judiciary Committee in which he said he only recently became aware of Operation Fast and Furious in the first half of 2011.[124][125] In April 2012, Issa announced that his committee was drafting a Contempt of Congress resolution against Holder in response to the committee being "stonewalled by the Justice Department."[126] On June 19, 2012, Issa met with Holder in person to discuss the requested documents. Holder said he offered to provide the documents to Issa on the condition that Issa provided his assurance that doing so would satisfy the committee subpoenas and resolve the dispute. Issa rejected the offer. Holder then told reporters "They rejected what I thought was an extraordinary offer on our part."[127] On June 20, 2012, the Oversight Committee voted 23–17 along party lines to hold Holder in contempt of Congress for not releasing documents the committee had requested.[128] A memo from Holder's office said of the vote: "It's an election-year tactic intended to distract attention."[129]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder
"On October 2011, 7,600 pages of documents were released that Issa claimed may have indicated Holder was sent memos in regard to Operation Fast and Furious earlier than he at first claimed,[122][123] contradicting Holder's sworn testimony before the House Judiciary Committee in which he said he only recently became aware of Operation Fast and Furious in the first half of 2011.[124][125] In April 2012, Issa announced that his committee was drafting a Contempt of Congress resolution against Holder in response to the committee being "stonewalled by the Justice Department."[126] On June 19, 2012, Issa met with Holder in person to discuss the requested documents. Holder said he offered to provide the documents to Issa on the condition that Issa provided his assurance that doing so would satisfy the committee subpoenas and resolve the dispute. Issa rejected the offer. Holder then told reporters "They rejected what I thought was an extraordinary offer on our part."[127] On June 20, 2012, the Oversight Committee voted 23–17 along party lines to hold Holder in contempt of Congress for not releasing documents the committee had requested.[128] A memo from Holder's office said of the vote: "It's an election-year tactic intended to distract attention."[129]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder
4meAndyou · F
@Paperhearts It's really sad, isn't it? I don't care which side is doing it, these political ploys are taking up OUR time...the time that is supposed to be devoted to the American people, to furthering our interests through law, and to protecting our people.
Instead, Congress feeds us a constant diet of this sort of poo. 😜
Instead, Congress feeds us a constant diet of this sort of poo. 😜
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
4meAndyou · F
@Heartlander Exactly. Not one justice for one group, and separate justice for the elites and the loud-mouthed abusive ones.
therighttothink50 · 56-60, M
Soon Obama and his fellow leftists will be fully exposed. The hammer is finally going to be dropped regarding declassification. And yes Obama, Clinton, Comey and the whole gang of Anti-American, Anti-Constitutional rogue deep state actors will be held fully accountable. If Trump fails to declassify and expose these mutinous scumbags the country is lost.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/05/when_will_trump_finally_drop_the_hammer_on_the_deep_state_.html
The time has come to finally free America from the leftist illusion Barack Obama and his sycophants have created. Drop the damn hammer on these leftist scumbags.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/05/when_will_trump_finally_drop_the_hammer_on_the_deep_state_.html
The time has come to finally free America from the leftist illusion Barack Obama and his sycophants have created. Drop the damn hammer on these leftist scumbags.
katielass · F
@GunSmoke9 I'm sure they are aware that the fisa court sent a memo to the doj naming names in criminal referrals and stating the fbi broke the law. Oh they know what's coming, and they are trying to stave it off by demonizing Barr because he will be the one to hand out the indictments. Of course their base will believe them when they blather about it being for revenge. But intelligent people will know and that's what scares the crap out of them. The dumdums have really boxed themselves in with no way out. Stay tuned.
acpguy · C
I would like to see a class action lawsuit to collect the taxpayers money wasted by the democrats and make it so it is paid for by each individual democrat that pushed for these investigations and wasted time by Congress.
It should also include that every politician in DC (Senate and House) release their tax records for the past 10 years to see if there was any evasion or fraud involved by them.
It should also include that every politician in DC (Senate and House) release their tax records for the past 10 years to see if there was any evasion or fraud involved by them.
therighttothink50 · 56-60, M
MarmeeMarch · M
4meAndyou · F
@MarmeeMarch Just reading Marbury vs Madison. It does not appear to be similar. Marbury vs Madison was more about a court ruling against Madison for slow walking judge's commissions.
The difference, in this case, is that Congress has requested the Attorney General to break the law by disclosing Grand Jury information which is protected in secrecy by law. Congress leaks like a sieve, and any information disclosed to them WILL leak.
The difference, in this case, is that Congress has requested the Attorney General to break the law by disclosing Grand Jury information which is protected in secrecy by law. Congress leaks like a sieve, and any information disclosed to them WILL leak.
4meAndyou · F
@SW-User I believe, instead, that it is a concerted attempt to smear Barr. If the Democrats can, at this point, place the idea in the minds of their own party and in the minds of some Independants that Barr is dirty, then no matter what Barr finds when he examines the DNC's role in the creation of the Fusion GPS dossier, they can scream that Barr is making it all up because he was held in contempt.
Platoscave · F
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
Fukfacewillie · 56-60, M
Barr should be arrested. He’s a political hack.
Fukfacewillie · 56-60, M
Lied to Congress,,,contempt of Congress...not fulfilling his duty to actually be attorney general, you America hater.,@PainfulTruth
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.