People who say violence achieves nothing are living in a moral dream word.

@redredred I mean even then, there are [i]some[/i] situations where initiating violence is honorable. An identity thief or fraudster isn't violent, but it's still justifiable to forcibly capture them and possibly subject them to prison time.

@BlueVeins theft, fraud and bribery are violence. They are a form of criminal taking.

@redredred That's... a pretty unconventional definition of violence. Violence usually refers to physical force.

@BlueVeins a threat is violence even if done over the phone where immediate force is impossible.