Why a ceasefire?

In 1945 much of Europe lay in ruins. Civilians were killed, crippled, left homeless, starving literally by millions. Nobody said, let's have a humanitarian ceasefire and give the Germans time to re-arm and re-group.

The war did not end until the Nazi government had been driven from power. Because that was necessary to prevent a new round of atrocities and warfare. And it was indeed the right thing to do.

How does it make sense to provide the genocidal terrorist group Hamas with the chance to re-arm and commit more diabolical crimes like the one they did in October.

Hamas is no better than the Nazis were and should have been dealt with in the same way.

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onewithshoes · 22-25, F

For reasons no one can explain, there are no formal declarations of war any more, and therefore no formal surrenders any more, and no formal peace treaties. In a sense then, wars never really begin, and never really end. The Middle East is thus never really at war and never really at peace, but always somewhere in between.

justbob · 61-69, M

@onewithshoes I am not thinking about a "surrender" by Hamas. I am talking about its complete disillusion. That is the only way long term peace can be achieved.

The step after that is to figure out where all of the people currently in Gaza go. Grant full independence to Gaza and create a new desperately poor country, deport them to Egypt or somewhere, or find some other place?

Richard65 · M

@justbob deporting them to Egypt is ethnic cleansing and a crime, so that's not an option. Plus, Hamas is an idea, not an army per se, and it's impossible to kill an idea. Hamas is the violent manifestation of opposition to a Jewish ethno-state. So, Netanyahu has likely recruited even more people to the Hamas cause with his genocidal response. The British government thought they could destroy the IRA, who they labelled terrorists too, but, decades later with many lives lost, the IRA effectively shares genuine political power in the running of Ireland today.

justbob · 61-69, M

@Richard65 Hamas is an organization. And forcing them to dissolve / getting them out of the leadership in Gaza is no more unobtainable than disbanding and removing the National Socialist German Workers Party from power was in 1945

Richard65 · M

@justbob So, you think Nazi ideology died out in 1945 and we aren't still dealing with it? How quaint.

justbob · 61-69, M

@Richard65 It did not entirely die out, but it is no longer governing a country or in control of a large armed organization. And Hamas could and should meet the same fate.

Richard65 · M

@justbob have you heard of the far right neo-Nazi Azov Brigade, who we're arming in Ukraine? They have been known to wear swastikas on their arms. Ukraine itself still holds parades for prominent WW2 Nazis. The far right are gaining traction all over Europe, politically. It hasn't gone anywhere. You can't kill an idea. The fact people like you don't understand this is part of the problem. Bombing children back to the stone age serves no purpose, as you'd acknowledge if you lived there.

justbob · 61-69, M

@Richard65 OK we are just talking at each other and wasting time so goodbye. But I will mention that given that the elected leader of the Ukrainian government is a Jew, the whole 'Ukraine is full of Nazis' thing is obviously mostly Russian propaganda.

Richard65 · M

@justbob
"Ukrainian nationalists held a torchlight march in the capital of Kyiv to mark the birthday of Stepan Bandera, the leader of a rebel militia that fought alongside Nazi soldiers in World War II. During World War II, Bandera led the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, whose men killed thousands of Jews and Poles, including women and children, while fighting alongside Nazi Germany against the Red Army and communists."

The Times of Israel
January 2022.

ididntknow · 51-55, M

@justbob Zelenskyy isn’t elected, the election was cancelled, he’s been in power for nearly a year now, and he shouldn’t be

justbob · 61-69, M

@ididntknow New elections are over due and were put off because of the crisis but Zelensky was indeed elected.

ididntknow · 51-55, M

@justbob Ukraine on fire, by Oliver stone, gives a good insight to where Ukraine is at, and how it got there, it’s on Amazon prime, very informative