I have to say I'm fascinated that you seem to believe that the US/the West provoked Russia into this war.
I'm sorry, where did I say this? My comment was about left being indoctrinated into supporting the war, I never said anything about the US or West provoking Russia.
Do you really think Putin actually believed that Ukraine was going to join NATO?
Again, where in my comment did I say anything that could be remotely construed this way?
Were you in the car on your mobile phone when you responded?
I am in NO rush, take your time and respond relevantly or don't respond at all.
Oh I know you didn't say that, but I am making an assumption that I know to be correct.
Clearly, you don't consider yourself indoctrinated by the MSM. You're clearly one of these "free thinkers" who look at YouTube videos by psychic podcasters or something, who say something like:
"I'm going to join some dots by giving you some (loaded) information; what you do with this is up to you".
You therefore "join the dots" to your liking, and you get to pat yourself on the back about how smart you are for seeing something that flies in the face not just of conventional wisdom, but also facts.
If you haven't been indoctrinated into supporting the war, it stands to reason that you must, in that case, support Putin's viewpoint, which is that the West provoked Russia in invading Ukraine. And the reason Putin gives for invading is that Ukraine was on the verge of joining NATO, which had been denied time and time again.
Therefore, my second question was also relevant:
Do you really think Putin actually believed Ukraine was going to join NATO?
So, you can either reply, and splutter in faux outraged indignation, or block me. I am in NO rush to find out.
Oh I know you didn't say that, but I am making an assumption that I know to be correct.
🤣
You assumed huh? Ok. 😆
Clearly, you don't consider yourself indoctrinated by the MSM. You're clearly one of these "free thinkers" who look at YouTube videos by psychic podcasters or something, who say something like:
"I'm going to join some dots by giving you some (loaded) information; what you do with this is up to you".
You therefore "join the dots" to your liking, and you get to pat yourself on the back about how smart you are for seeing something that flies in the face not just of conventional wisdom, but also facts.
Not at all, and I have never said anything even remotely that should have led you to believe this.
If you haven't been indoctrinated into supporting the war, it stands to reason that you must, in that case, support Putin's viewpoint, which is that the West provoked Russia in invading Ukraine.
That doesn't stand to reason at all. It's absurd to assume that there can only be two sides to an issue and I have to pick one or the other.
Again, my point isn't about Russia, NATO or the West.
Its about how people like you, who spend a significant amount of time promoting and celebrating left wing ideals can also be a war hawk and be supportive and excited about a war.
In my opinion, and that opinion was validated here, is that you really don't know why you support this war, you just do, and being questioned on it chafed you and caused you to feel "cognitive dissonance".
So, you can either reply, and splutter in faux outraged indignation, or block me. I am in NO rush to find out.
I'm not upset at all, in fact I want to thank you for revealing the type of person you are. I don't need to block you, I suspect that is projection from your own frustration.
If you don't want to respond anymore, then don't. If you want to block me, go ahead. 🤷♂️
SW-User
@SumKindaMunster I don't support this war. I never supported this war. I want it to end. But I honestly can't see how it will without external assistance. Putin does not want peace; he is doubling down, throwing more and more troops into the proverbial meat grinder, and the best we can hope for is a long-term ceasfire and some sort of deal. But I don't know how we can do that without heavy weaponry.
@SW-User Is that right? Then why are you celebrating a significant escalation to this conflict then? You want it to end, but you also want to cheer more weapons going there? You think they are going to use these tanks as flower beds?
Putin does not want peace; he is doubling down, throwing more and more troops into the proverbial meat grinder, and the best we can hope for is a long-term ceasfire and some sort of deal. But I don't know how we can do that without heavy weaponry.
How do you know that is true? You realize every single piece of news that comes from this conflict is directly through the military, and the DOD. It is vetted and approved by them for dissemination by our media. Any war deals with massive propaganda. Are you familiar with the term "The Fog of War" and what it means?
You should be cheering breakthroughs in diplomacy, a plan and and end game to this conflict, not just when the military escalates the conflict.
SW-User
@SumKindaMunster I tried cheering diplomacy when it looked as though peace might have been possible back last April. I now have to cheer anything that might just bring about a quicker end to this brutal conflict, and minimise the horrendous number of casualties on both sides.
@SW-User Well good, its a shame your posting history isn't reflecting that belief.
At this point, I don't think we should just walk away, but I want to know what our end game is in this conflict. What do we want? Right now, it looks like what we want is to drag Russia into a horrible, brutal war of attrition and hope that sooner or later they can no longer sustain this campaign and either collapse or overthrow Putin.
I'd also like to know what Joe Biden promised Ukraine through Hunter Biden.
SW-User
@SumKindaMunster The end game must be driving Russian forces out of Ukraine, and then forcing Putin to come to the table to hammer out a peace deal, which could take months, or even years, to do. But anything to stop the killing.
And I'm sorry, that is unfair saying I am pro-war just because I wrote "Good". It is a necessary evil, in my opinion.
Also, regarding Hunter Biden, let's pretend I care and leave it at that. I'm not going down THAT rabbit hole...
that is unfair saying I am pro-war just because I wrote "Good". It is a necessary evil, in my opinion.
I think its totally fair. How many questions did I have to ask for you to admit that?
Again, I ask this question and at this point its entirely rhetorical...
Are you really so invested in defending Ukraine and pushing Russia out that you would risk nuclear retaliation and/or the collapse of the Russia Federation?
Well that's what the US and NATO are risking right now, and everyday the chances of that happening go up.
SW-User
@SumKindaMunster Putin threatened nuclear retaliation from the very second he announced his "special military operation," so there's nothing new there.
And as for my comment about "Good", you chose to misconstrue that.
@SW-User My understanding is that you supported sending tanks to Ukraine so unless that isn't true, I didn't misconstrue anything.
SW-User
@SumKindaMunster I do indeed support sending tanks to Ukraine. That doesn't mean I am pro-war. It just means that we can all see that anti-war measures, such as sanctions and diplomacy, are not working. Therefore, we need to try and end this war as soon as possible by other means.
I never said you were pro war, I said you supported the Ukraine war and again, I find it interesting that left leaning people do. I assure you your ancestors in the 60's through the 80's would be appalled at your blood lust.
It just means that we can all see that anti-war measures, such as sanctions and diplomacy, are not working. Therefore, we need to try and end this war as soon as possible by other means.
Ok, got it. Can you point me to your post detailing the latest diplomatic push to end this war, and your opinion on it? I didn't see it.
SW-User
@SumKindaMunster I do not know how to end this war by diplomatic means. The only diplomacy that Putin will accept is Ukraine's surrender. So, I'm out of options, and it looks as though the West is as well.
I do not support war, I do not support the Ukraine war. I support bringing this war to an end as soon as possible so that as few innocent lives as possible are lost. Any new push toward diplomacy at this moment in time will likely increase the ferocity of Russia's attacks against innocents. If you want to accuse me of bloodlust, then I can just as easily accuse you of bloodlust by advocating prolonging this war while pursuing fruitless diplomatic channels.
I do not know how to end this war by diplomatic means. The only diplomacy that Putin will accept is Ukraine's surrender. So, I'm out of options, and it looks as though the West is as well.
Is that right? This is all Putin huh? Weird because a cadre of "Progressive" Democrats got pubically shamed for writing a letter to Biden asking him to pursue diplomacy here and it was hastily retracted. Certainly not the behavior of leaders who are serious about pursuing diplomacy.
For that to happen, we would need to actually reach out and attempt diplomatic negations. Certainly, providing more weapons to Ukraine is directly contradictory to that goal. Sending more and newer weapons to the war is not anywhere near looking for a diplomatic solution.
Any new push toward diplomacy at this moment in time will likely increase the ferocity of Russia's attacks against innocents
So you say. I don't think its so apparent.
If you want to accuse me of bloodlust, then I can just as easily accuse you of bloodlust by advocating prolonging this war while pursuing fruitless diplomatic channels.
You could, but then you would look like a desperate smacked ass who clearly is purposefully misinterpreting what I said.
At this point, I don't think we should just walk away,
If it helps, I support an immediate end to hostilities on both sides, and a push to come to the table and negotiate a solution to this.
But that certainly isn't happening with this administration, while you and other indoctrinates cheer on the carnage.
@SW-User You're literally cheering for an escalation of the war in this post. I've covered this repeatedly now. You don't have to agree, but to say you don't understand??? 🤔
If you don't want to discuss that, then don't. But stop pretending I haven't explained how you are cheering the escalation of this conflict with this post.
SW-User
@SumKindaMunster I am hoping that sending tanks will end this war quicker! I am hoping that fewer innocent lives will be lost. I am hoping that Russia will be forced to come to the negotiating table.
