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Building Settlements On Occupied Land...

The US didn't permanently occupy or build settlements in Japan or Germany after WW2. That would have been a violation of international law. Israel ihas been in violation of international law for more than 50 years with the occupation and settlement of the land seized in the 1967 war.


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@jshm2 Even that, I think is an unfair comparison. When Europeans took the Americas, imperialism was just the state of the world. Comparing that to what Israel is doing would be like equating slavery during the start of America with people owning slaves today.
Blackie · 51-55, M
@jshm2 That's the history of mankind, invade and conquer and now suddenly its a big deal. Now it's turned into cry and divide from within.
@jshm2 Europeans had no connection whatsoever to the Americas. Jews, on the other hand, originated in what is now Israel and have maintained a continuous community there since antiquity. So there's no comparison.

Ironically, when Israel was established, some Native American groups were inspired by the idea of native people returning to their homeland and reconstituting their original language.

Harmonium1923 · 51-55, M
This is historically flawed in so many different levels I don’t have time to write it all out. But here are two things to consider:

1. What people lived in Jerusalem and the surrounding lands before Christianity and Islam were even developed, and why do you feel they have no right to be there now?

2. Before using the Us as an example of enlightened occupations you may wish to read “Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee”. History didn’t begin in 1948.
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Harmonium1923 · 51-55, M
@GrinNude Please see my prior response.
trollslayer · 46-50, M
@Harmonium1923 are anti zionist jews (a large portion of the protesters) anti semitic? What about people who have no issues with the 1948 israel boundaries, but have issues with expansion into golan heights, gaza, and west bank? I thought you were talking about people here. I have seen very few posts on here saying israel with pre-1967 borders should go bye-bye. As to the “75 years of occupation” kids, i have to think most are simply ignorant to history.

Every other country considers occupation of west bank and east jerusalem illegal under international law. Golan, too, with the exception of Trump, who did do because Netanyahu promised to name Trumpville settlement after him.
Opposing Israel's settlement policy in the West Bank is one thing. Calling for Israel's destruction is something else. Whenever someone says "75 years of occupation," that means they think the entire state of Israel shouldn't be there, not just the areas captured in 1967.

Isn't it interesting that there was no complaint of "occupation" when Egypt controlled Gaza and Jordan controlled the West Bank?
@GlitterEater Another problem with your comment is that it seems to delegitimize Israel. That's considered per se anti-semitism. Keep in mind, the United Nations played a significant role in the establishment of the State of Israel. In 1947, the UN General Assembly adopted Resolution 181, also known as the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine. This resolution recommended the partition of Mandatory Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem as a separate entity under international control due to its significance to multiple religious groups.

The partition plan was accepted by Jewish leaders but rejected by Arab leaders, leading to the Arab-Israeli War of 1948-1949. Following this conflict, Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, and several neighboring Arab states invaded, leading to further hostilities. Despite the opposition from Arab states, Israel's declaration of independence and subsequent establishment were significant milestones supported by the UN's earlier partition plan.
@BohemianBoo Your understanding of the position of Palestinian refugees is deficient. Non-Palestinian refugees are and have been accepted. Normally, when refugees are unable to return home, the UN has facilitated their integration into their host countries. The UNWRA agency, which exclusively serves Palestinians (the only group of refugees with their own UN agency) has the opposite mission - to maintain Palestinians as permanent, multi-generational refugees, and to increase their numbers as much as possible.

Palestinian Arabs who remained in Israel after 1947 are Israeli citizens with full rights and representation in the Knesset. Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank aren't Israelis because they don't live in Israel. Apartheid can only apply to people living in the same country as the dominant group, not people under military occupation. You never heard apartheid applied to Catholics in Northern Ireland because they weren't English. You also never heard it applied to Black Americans under Jim Crow, even though it met the definition perfectly.

So it's not apartheid, and it's not a genocide either, at least if you go by the definition of Rafael Lemkin, the man who invented the term. If you are applying it because you hate Israel and want to present the country in as negative a light as possible, that's different.

A higher percentage of Germans were killed by Allied bombing in WWII than Palestinians have been killed in the current war. Were the Germans victims of genocide?
[quote][/quote]@LeopoldBloom Very good response.

By the way, I didn't believe you but I looked it up and you were right.

[quote]During World War II, it's estimated that between 305,000 and 600,000 German civilians were killed as a result of Allied bombing raids. These figures vary depending on the source and the specific time frame considered.

In the current Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the casualty figures are highly disputed, and they can vary depending on the source providing the data. However, according to various reports and estimates, including those from the United Nations and human rights organizations, the number of Palestinians killed in the conflict, both civilians and combatants, has been in the thousands.

Based solely on the numbers, if we consider the lower end of the estimates for German civilian casualties during WWII (305,000) and compare it to the number of Palestinians killed in the current conflict (in the thousands), it appears that the assertion is factually accurate.[/quote]
GrinNude · 61-69, C
The main thrust of this post is things that are happening now that need to be addressed in order to move forward - illegal occupation, apartheid and ethnic cleansing.

Arguments about how we got here are not constructive. It is what it is. What do we do now to make tomorrow better than today?

I suggest the illegal occupation, apartheid state and ethnic cleansing are at the root of the Gaza conflict and need to be addressed post-haste in order to move forward.

Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch both describe Israel as having become an Apartheid State.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/19/israeli-apartheid-threshold-crossed
GrinNude · 61-69, C
@sladejr I'm sure human rights organizations weren't popular in apartheid South Africa either. If you deem Netanyahu more credible, thats your misconception.
sladejr · 56-60, M
@GrinNude your beloved UN created Israel. Therefore it is 100% legitimate.

Notice how you don't whine about Jordan being created along with it. Doesn't feed the agenda eh Adolph?
Blackie · 51-55, M
@GrinNude but if it's in a such a dire state of emergency why do they attack the aid trucks coming from Egypt ? One of the new obstacles to getting aid into the region is finding drivers that will do it. you see the drivers coming back across the Egyptian border walking bloodied and beaten and with their trucks having been stolen or damaged. I wonder if they probably regret having gone into Israeli settlements on Oct 7th. Which by the way having seen some footage confiscated from the Hamas fighters. Ehhh I can see see why they want to eradicate the terrorist group in that region. I doubt there will ever be peace in that blood tainted land,
Bumbles · 51-55, M
Arafat did more to wreck the chances of Palestinian statehood than any Israeli. It’s astounding how you people give him a pass.
trollslayer · 46-50, M
@Bumbles thats the opinion of one side.
Bumbles · 51-55, M
@trollslayer The details following David and Oslo are conclusive.
trollslayer · 46-50, M
@Bumbles really? I’ve read many conflicting accounts.
Not Japan or Germany - Indian territory, Hawaii, Guam Puerto Rico, Etc.
It's impossible for true Americans to know anything about that, especially right after I tell you.
GlitterEater · 36-40, F
@Roundandroundwego I don't think this post was meant to demonstrate that the US is ethical or innocent.
GrinNude · 61-69, C
@GlitterEater You are correct. Especially when the US is providing weapons to support an apartheid state involved in ethnic cleansing.
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.
Blackie · 51-55, M
There will never be peace in that land. It’s tainted and shall always remain so.
LordShadowfire · 100+, M
@Blackie Taint... lol
onewithshoes · 22-25, F
No, but no one saw Japan as a Promised Land.
LordShadowfire · 100+, M
Let's not start a back and forth about who was there first, because Israel was there as recently as 2,000 years ago. Where was Palestine in those days?

Also, you're forgetting that Britain gave the land to Palestine in the first place, then took it only 40 years after that and gave it to Israel.
GrinNude · 61-69, C
@LordShadowfire [quote]Britain gave the land to Palestine in the first place,[/quote]

Jesus was a Jewish Palestinian living in Roman occupied Palestine.
LordShadowfire · 100+, M
@GrinNude There was no such thing as Palestine in those days.
https://theconversation.com/the-history-of-israel-and-palestine-alternative-names-competing-claims-163156#:~:text=Taking%20stock,become%20water%20under%20the%20bridge.

 
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