On further examination Daenerys Targaryen's path through Essos reminds me a little bit of the Prophet's path through Saudi Arabia

Especially if you look at the Mecca old guard and Yunkai/Mereen/Astapor parallels
when faced with their respective arrivals and actions.

I'm not a scholar though and I only know about it surface level. So I'm unclear where else he might have got the indea from as as the Hebrews fight for their homeland in the Torah/Bible and the spread of Buddhism don't quite ring the same way.

But as earlier with the Targaryen Dynasty, while GRRM's Ptolemaic inspiration is clear, he unknowingly modelled it on the Mughal Empire.

As of now without referring to his interviews I'll try and crack the North. Obviously Anglo-Saxon but when and who, ah that'll be the juicy bit to get into.

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SomeMichGuy · M

The fact that he felt the need to pretend to be another JRRT might also help...

Longpatrol · 31-35, M

@SomeMichGuy JRR Tolkien very intentionaly drew on anglo-saxon, scandinavian and finnish influences in totality. GRRM the more I read and draw on my own knowledge has a surface level understanding of history and somewhat stumbles on non-Eurocentric actual happenings

SomeMichGuy · M

@Longpatrol So a significant difference.

Of course, Tolkien was a linguist who created a world full of languages and told stories about the creatures who spoke them, so the first two influences you mention are not at all surprising.

What I was getting at is that JRRT was an actual "RR" (John Ronald Reuel Tolkien), not a fanboy wannabe; but any person that much in love with another author that they'd change their own name to try to create some sort of parallel might well try to be like his archetype in other ways.

Longpatrol · 31-35, M

@SomeMichGuy And insult the man while trying to do so!

SomeMichGuy · M

@Longpatrol Well, if GRRM is a fanboy of JRRT, at least that's something...

But it IS odd for a writer--who is familiar with ANOTHER writer known for writing a bit!--would not look more deeply into the writer with whom he wants to link himself...

Aren't most writers also READERS?

Longpatrol · 31-35, M

@SomeMichGuy You're not wrong and I'm not saying GRRM didn't read JRRT's books.

But what he drew from them was entirely different to what the rest of the world drew, and all he saw was not a seminal piece of literature, but something that had way too many gaps and he was burdened by the need to explain it via the practical, how characters fight, how characters piss, the politics behind an alliance, the motivations of an implacable foe.

And the more he read the more he thougt, "actually you know what, it was genre defining but a bit shit, I can do better."

To that I'd say Joe Abercrombie does much better realistic histori-fantasy and doesn't take fucking forever to do it either.

SomeMichGuy · M

@Longpatrol lol

AH

So GRRM got into the TEDIOUS details as the way he thought he was getting verisimilitude...

Yeah, there are authors on, e.g., Literotica, who can't keep their characters' names consistent over 8 phone screens...but detail at the level you are saying might be something he "needs" in his own notes if he "needs" that for himself, to feel right about it...but not for general consumption.

Longpatrol · 31-35, M

@SomeMichGuy I'm mean its a little bit bloaty but books 1-3 managed it okay with the limited POV's but coming on books 4-5...
Book 6 is so big he split it into 2 books each the size of book 5 and bit more

SomeMichGuy · M

@Longpatrol So do you think his success went to his head?