Sometimes love is not enough

@Donotfolowme It's how she feels. It's usually an empty person who attracts a narcissist.

@Queendragonfly Thats sad but true

@Queendragonfly Not always. Often it’s individuals with a deep capacity for empathy or some other sort of drive. The narcissistic first and foremost needs supply and they won’t get that from an empty vessel. If the person is not careful then yes they will end up an empty shell but they don’t start off that way.

@Notladylike Narcissists go after people with low self esteem and self worth. They're the only people to not notice it's a narcissist.

@Queendragonfly what’s that based on? I actually don’t think most people can spot a narcissist before it’s too late.

@Notladylike A person with low self esteem is wanting to be rescued, and a narcissist come off as the saviour through the love bombing.

What a normal person with high self esteem and self respect sees as arrogance and love bombing , a person with low self esteem will see as being loved. People with low self esteem are similar as narcissists in craving someone to make them feel whole. Which is illusion. No one can make another person whole.

That's what I see portrayed in this image. She thought he was a healer and saviour and he's dead inside. And it showed once she's already trapped. Isolated from everyone, married to him.

@Queendragonfly I think you are talking about a person with bpd who is in a relationship with someone with NPD.
Typically a narcissist has a lot of charm and will pick a target that makes them look good. Sometimes that’s an individual with low self esteem but not always.

@Notladylike There's plenty of people without BPD who still were blindsided into a narcissistic relationship. All it takes is low self esteem. And that craving to be completed /saved /loved and desperation that makes one look past the signs that shows in the beginning because one don't want to be alone.

@Queendragonfly It’s not ever as simple as one variable equaling causation. That’s certainly true of all the cases I can recall. With quite often very successful women. I think it’s dangerous to victim blame by suggesting there was a weakness in the person who entered that relationship. The mask may not drop until children are involved for example.

@Notladylike I haven't victim blamed anyone. This is a psychological explanation. Most people who meet narcissists are subconsciously drawn to them. That's never their fault. Usually we don't find out the destructive patterns we have until we're in therapy. But I have lots of experience regarding the subject and if you're against victim blaming, never claim it's only people with BPD who attracts a narcissist. I've visited women abuse facilities and the experts their also told me what I'm telling you. They notice a pattern in the victims of narcissists and it can be different genders personalities and they might have NPD PTSD or neither but what they all had in common. Is low self esteem, low,self worth and low self respect. It's not victim claiming to see that. And acknowledge that. The opposite. It's very important to prevent ending up in new abuse relationships.

@Queendragonfly I never said it’s only women with BPD. What I said was it’s not just women with low self esteem. At least they don’t start out that way. It’s women from all walks of life who’d you never pick. The problem with lived experience data is it can skew the view to the bigger picture. Your experience is very valid though. I just don’t think there is an obvious pattern of victims.

@Notladylike It's all kinds of women who are somewhat naive and struggle to set boundaries. That's a result of low self esteem and self worth.

No one who has their life together and don't feel they need a man or have to save or help or be saved or helped will end up with a narcissist.

There's tons of articles about it while your stance seem to just be you not liking the fact that it is a pattern there. I don't know what's so wrong or threatening with that fact. Every single women abuse group leader will talk about the pattern, to help prevent women from ending up in abuse again. That's something good.

Do you know people who were confident with good mental health who was attracted to a narcissist?

@Queendragonfly Yes I have my own personal experience as well as through my career. I don’t think we are arguing for opposing views. I think we are taking a different lens to the issue.
I just think language is so important. There are studies that show measurable damage/differences to the brain after long term narcissistic abuse due to the floods of cortisol.
I’d rather see the focus be on the individual with NPD rather than the victims. To me I worry that it fuels the narrative that it’s a them problem not a society problem.
I do think men in particular need a lot more support than what they are getting to break these cycles.
I don’t disagree with you in that anyone who already has low self esteem or a history of childhood trauma is going to be more vulnerable sadly.

@Notladylike That makes sense. Personally I think to talk about the self destructive patterns isn't to blame the victim, [i]it empowers the survivor [/i]
With self awareness comes new powers.
I agree mental health is important for everyone in need, it's not gender biased.


Interesting about cortisol. I have read some theories how the victims of a psychopath often are narcissists too. It's the perfect combo. In that situation the abuser is a psychopath and the victim is the narcissist. The narcissist with a whole in their hearts (like the woman in the painting) wanting to be whole and a psychopath is not human in any way (a skeleton) and use the needs the narcissist have to fill their ego and mundane lives.

@Queendragonfly I like that reframe about empowerment, I hadn't thought of it that way before.

@Notladylike

@Queendragonfly Love that! Women do need to get in touch with their inner warrior and realise they are far stronger then they know.

@Notladylike Especially in the presence of a strong abusive man. It's a matter of surviving. He's physically stronger but with the right mindset the woman can beat him in his own game.