@Mamapolo2016 Agree completely. There are people who avoid conflict at all costs, and so forgiveness is there way of dealing with it. On the other hand, assertive love says we don't have to be aggressive, but will not be walked over, manipulated or accept poor behaviour. You can forgive and still hold someone to account. You can forgive a narcissistic partner who has done damage, but still say, 'It's over. I forgive you, but goodbye.'
@Mamapolo2016 it all depends what you mean by forgiveness,if you continue to remain with the narcissist,forgiving them or not will make no difference they will continue to abuse you,people who stay with narcissists and forgive them do it to feel better about themselves because they believe that forgiving is the right thing to do,this is what society keeps telling you,another preconceived notion put out by society and originating from religeous "teachings" that does far more harm then good,the only way you can "forgive"and no longer be abused is to leave the narcissist,but you do not have to forgive the narcissists to heal from the damage he or she has inflicted on your life.
@Abstraction Yes you can do that but if you cannot bring yourself to"forgive" there is no need to feel bad or guilty about it,because some deliberate and intentional actions at harming another person are simply unforgivable and one should have the priviledge to chose that option.
@berangere A couple of thoughts: [quote]forgive them do it to feel better about themselves because they believe that forgiving is the right thing to do[/quote] In some cases. But the statement assumes that a person's motives for forgiving or doing the right thing are to, 'feel good about themselves.' People are more complex than that. Sure, it may apply to some, but many do the right thing because it part of the values they subscribe to. There's a difference. It's a myth that every act is selfish.
[quote]because some deliberate and intentional actions at harming another person are simply unforgivable and one should have the priviledge to chose that option[/quote] I note the person in the video talks about people who 'spout their opinions about forgiveness.'
My organisation worked with extreme trauma of victims of the Rwanda genocide. That took a little more than opinions. Because almost nothing was working, and many of these people were utterly dysfunctional. Almost every approach tried by myriad groups around the country failed. Only two approaches worked: one was a church-based approach, and the other was secular-based.
Part of healing is disconnecting from the damage done to you by another. It's about becoming free from it. In the most extreme cases it has to start with the trauma, not talk about forgiveness or moving on. Only when the trauma has been to some extent processed were the folk in Rwanda able to reach a point of decision: to continue with this level of pain or find another path. I don't care if you call it forgiveness or something else, but disconnecting from the power of what they have inflicted on you and choosing to live free from this is very powerful. To hate is to continue to be dehumanised by their behaviour.
[quote]one should have the priviledge to chose that option.[/quote] Yes. Strongly, strongly agree with you. People who come along from the outside telling you what you must do are ignorant.
[quote]because some deliberate and intentional actions at harming another person are simply unforgivable[/quote] Rwandan people who came through this were just ordinary people. But many of them are my heroes. Many reached out to those who killed their relatives in ways that are difficult to comprehend. Not to feel better about themselves, but because they overcame evil with love.
@Abstraction Thank you for your answer and thank you for the support you gave those victims of genocide.Yes,disconnection is not allowing something to continue harming you emotionally and to move on,you can disconnect without "forgiving" basically forgiving is saying that what was done to you can be overlooked,and this makes many people who forgive because they feel it is the right thing to do "sold down river"you should have the privilege to say and feel "no,I will not forgive,what was done to me does not deserve forgiveness" and not feel bad or guilty about it,then you can disconnect if you can,the thing is to get rid of the anger you have inside you at the gratuitous cruelty that was done to you and the anger you have at yourself for having allowed it to happen.Those victims of genocide who reached out to their abusers are the ultimate example of what love is meant to be,but love is lost on narcissists and toxic people.
