This might sound stupid..

@ServantOfTheGoddess a diagnosis is not a label.

Cancer isn't a label. It is a disease. So is bipolar. A disease of the mind. I cannot stand people who create false narratives around mental health care and diagnosis as if it is somehow different than a medical condition like cancer or any other issue with your health. This is helpful to those who wish to diminsh mental health diagnosis. Stop doing it.

@JaggedLittlePill I want to really recognize that you are speaking from the heart and also that you are knowledgeable about this. I am still going to disagree. The science of physical medicine is not so exact either, but when we are talking about mental states, there are so many personal and cultural factors involved that I think "label" is a more appropriate term than "diagnosis", at least in many cases. Simple example: someone who talks to God or spirits and gets answers back from them is a holy person in some cultures and mentally ill in others.

@ServantOfTheGoddess it’s very real. My husband has it and I live with it everyday.

There’s no exaggerated elation, it’s all very real and happening in their minds.

I am shocked that you would say these things.

Because in your example you’re saying that if someone is speaking to god or spirits some cultures say they are a holy person. What does that same culture recognize that person as if they are just speaking to some made up person in their head? In that case are they labelled as crazy?

When my husband was suffering psychosis because he was so manic and hearing voices in his head he was finally diagnosed with what he was suffering with.

@iamonfire696 I was not saying it isn't real!!

I also have loved ones who have suffered terribly from mental illnesses and have been greatly helped by therapy and medication.

@ServantOfTheGoddess By saying the label is iffy you are invalidating that this condition is very real though.

@iamonfire696 No, that's not what I meant.
I do mean that:
these labels change, as @bijouxbroussard also pointed out (it used to be "manic depressive" now it is bipolar);
and they are often very provisional and uncertain (someone very close to me has received a number of different diagnoses -- something is clearly wrong, but what it exactly is, is not clear);
and that there are very different notions in different cultures of what is mentally normal, and what is unusual but good, and what is a mental illness. Sometimes it is the society that is sick much more than the individual.

@ServantOfTheGoddess That was not clear when you wrote it and people with bipolar cycle through manic depressive episodes.

At this point in time the diagnosis is “Bi Polar Disorder”. The disease is the same and the definition has changed but for all intents and purposes it is real.

I know you have someone close to you that suffers with mental health issues. I am sorry you do and it can be frustrating when being diagnosed because they need a history so they can give a correct diagnosis.

You know as well as I do that there’s no magic fix for it either. You can just throw pills at someone and they can manage. It takes work.

@iamonfire696 Yes, it takes a lot of hard work.

For activists on these issues, and other people living with mental illnesses, there are different approaches. Some find the diagnoses really helpful and are on board with the medical profession as they try to heal people. But others critique the whole concept of mental illness and protest against the way the medical system handles it. I think both are legitimate.

I also have a friend who has put all kinds of work into getting better, and has been in and out of the psych ward for years, and has not been healed.

@JaggedLittlePill [@iamonfire] looking back over this discussion, when I said "the labels are iffy" I really do mean the labels, or if you prefer, diagnoses. I know that the suffering of mental illness is real. It affects your lives and my lives.

I am in academic life, and this is the kind of thing we question and think about all the time. There is a famous book about the academic study of religion called[i] The Map Is Not The Territory[/i]. I was talking about the "maps", the ways we (and doctors) try to understand and define what is going on in people's minds. Those maps/labels/diagnoses are not always accurate. Sometimes they are helpful, but sometimes not. The territory -- the suffering that people we know and love experience -- is definitely real.

@SW-User I think that some of them are truly holy people. And there are cultures where they would get the support they need by being respected and honoured and cared for as holy people, rather than by being medicated or hospitalized.