it is so wild to me how a murdered pregnant woman is "double homicide",

@NerdyPotato while i would prefer abortion not to exist, i would begrudgingly respect THIS conclusion, bc at least it is consistent.

@TheEmperor if nobody ever found out, you would indeed not be charged with anything.

@NerdyPotato caveat tho: i dont care if it is visible pregnancy. i care if she is testably and scientifically pregnant.

@foldedunfolding I hope to never have to make that choice, because the psychological impact is severe. But I also understand that there are situations where carrying to term is worse for everyone involved, including the child to be. It's complex though, hence why I believe it should be considered on a case by case basis by the people involved and not covered by a blanket statement by strangers, let alone law.

@foldedunfolding there certainly is something to say for involuntary manslaughter on top of homicide. But adding a second count of premeditated murder for a victim the attacker didn't even know existed doesn't make sense.

@NerdyPotato i am the same. if there is EXTREME OVERSIGHT, and truly justifiable medical conditions that do NOT include, "this will be a hard child to raise because of down's syndrome/my budget/lifestyle"...and if you can prove to me that the advising doctor isnt making commissions off of a certain decision being MADE..maybe case by case.

@NerdyPotato it is a complex issue, with many reverberating implications in every facet of life..and no rally on either side will change that fact. even if a "sin" is committed..there is forgiveness and grace if one chooses to accept it. so regardless of my agreement or disagreement, a final choice to terminate is actually not even the biggest issue. the biggest issue to me is your motivation and heart condition.

i will say this: i am glad i am not God nor a lawmaker.

@TheEmperor i think that most people, on both sides of the aisle, can agree that is depraved.

@foldedunfolding exactly! I believe that's how most pro-choice people feel about it. Very few people are pro-abortion no matter what. But a ban doesn't allow an exception in those cases, and even specific exceptions in a new law won't cover complicated situations, hence freedom is essential to allow for the best of the worst outcome.

I'm not afraid of doctors taking commissions though. Of course they should get paid for their consults, but it makes no sense to risk their license by giving unethical advice. Plus they'd lose out on a future patient by recommending an abortion, so it's not even interesting for corrupt ones.

@NerdyPotato did you ever see the planned parenthood video calling the body parts "line items"?

my mom was told in the 80s that my brother was going to have downs and she "should abort". fortunately she didnt, and fortunately he was also born healthy. so i do believe that it happens.....

@TheEmperor margaret sanger, yep

you wanna talk systemic racism? let's talk abortion.

@foldedunfolding I hadn't, but did some searching. There's a couple of concerning statements about fraud with documentation and alternative methods of abortion. The way procedures are done should obviously be well regulated and enforced. There were also some very late abortions, but that's what you get when early ones are banned in half the country and it takes time to get it elsewhere.

@TheEmperor that's a false equivalency, for starters because there's no big lobby to ban guns, only to regulate them. And people advocating for reproductive rights aren't asking for it to be unregulated.