Do you listen to conspiracy theories?

@BlueVeins Since Epstein was in federal custody, it's possible that Trump either ordered his death, or at least allowed him the opportunity to commit suicide. But the theory that Hillary Clinton had him killed is tinfoil-hat territory.

@BlueVeins The Clintons have been out of government for years, and Epstein was being held in a federal facility. Trump was close friends with Epstein who procured several children for him to rape. Not that Trump was the only person who wanted Epstein dead, but he was the only one with the means and opportunity.

You may be correct about some nameless prison official. Epstein was clearly despondent and suicidal, and he was bound to kill himself if he was left alone long enough. So it's more likely that the officials just let it happen. It's also possible that another inmate killed him as child molesters are hated in prison.

The conspiracy theory that the Clintons did it is just Clinton Derangement Syndrome. There's no evidence that the Clintons killed anyone, even if a bunch of conservative wack jobs are convinced they did.

@BlueVeins There's always the possibility it was a criminal hit too. There's no way a guy like him wouldn't have underworld ties to all the organized crime networks. It's just as likely one if them offed him to keep him from ratting on them.
Like what sex slaver wouldn't have the finest cocaine as well?


@LeopoldBloom [quote] Not that Trump was the only person who wanted Epstein dead, but he was the only one with the means and opportunity
[/quote]

That's not true. Anyone with enough money has the means to have someone wacked in prison. It's easier to have someone wacked while in custody than it is when they are free.

@MethDozer I certainly don't discount the possibility that Epstein was murdered by other prisoners if that's what you mean, but based on the cameras getting cut & the patrol not going through (iirc i might be misremembering), there had to have been cooperation from the prison itself. Unless you mean that like a crime syndicate made a deal with the jail, I see that as 100% plausible.

@BlueVeins What you're doing is classic conspiracy theorizing - taking motive to equal means and opportunity. I see this all the time with JFK conspiracy theories, where the mafia, Cubans, the CIA, the FBI, Johnson, etc. wanted JFK dead, so therefore, they must have killed him. You're engaging in pure speculation with regard to the Clintons. Why would they risk their own freedom by giving some official (who works for the Trump administration) an opportunity to spill the beans? Not only that, you have no proof that Epstein procured underage girls for the Clintons. That's just an assumption. Trump on the other hand has paid settlements to the families of children he's raped, and was close to Epstein at one time. They lived a few miles apart FFS.

It makes more sense that the prison administration cut the cameras and removed Epstein's cell mate in the hope that he would kill himself. If anyone higher up ordered this, it would be Trump or one of his underlings.

@LeopoldBloom [quote] What you're doing is classic conspiracy theorizing - taking motive to equal means and opportunity.[/quote]

Well, I already established the likelihood that means & opportunity were present to the same extent that you established the same for Trump... But you go off I guess

[quote]You're engaging in pure speculation with regard to the Clintons.[/quote]

so are you with regards to trump

[quote]Why would they risk their own freedom by giving some official (who works for the Trump administration) an opportunity to spill the beans?[/quote]

Why are you assuming the trump administration had the opportunity to "spill the beans"? You could make the exact same argument the other way around.

[quote]rump on the other hand has paid settlements to the families of children he's raped, and was close to Epstein at one time.[/quote]

Source? Doesn't sound out of character for Trump, but I don't see any specific evidence for it.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-child-rape-settlements/

[quote]They lived a few miles apart FFS.[/quote]

That's true, but Clinton has been on Epstein's pedophile island, so...
https://nypost.com/2020/12/02/ex-bill-clinton-aide-dishes-on-ties-to-epstein-maxwell/

Overall, it seems like you're trying to put a partisan spin on an issue that really isn't partisan on the face of it. 💅

@BlueVeins Yes, that's what I mean. They tend to have those connections in yhe federal and state prison systems. That's why big names rat usually. They rat because they are certain they will get wacked in prison, not that they are going to prison. They have a lot of money and a lot of leverage. "You can take this unmarked million amd wack him, or we can have the prison population start rioting and shanking, find your family, etc. etc.
Say it was the Clinton's. I wouldn't be surprised if they contacted a dominate syndicate. Let then use their connections instead of your own because it's cleaner.
I'm with you though thay Trump seems unlikely. His position as Pres would make it a little but trickier to pull off and stay clean and why would he bother when he likely knew so many other capable entities are going to do it anyway? If he did habe a hand in it I would guess it was more in like finagling the system to put him in a prison that would be more likely than another for it. I just don't see him having much reason to take those risks to have done what so many others are likely to have done anyway.


Not that any of our what ifs are really worth a damn. We'll never know the truth or be able to guess close to it. There's way, way, way too many powerful and rich people around the world to point anywhere. Pretty much every person and group in the world with the power and means had a reason to wack him.

@LeopoldBloom Dude, your proposing equally unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. You fault someone for making a conspiracy theory then counter it with an equally unsupported conspiracy theory involving Trump.

@BlueVeins @MethDozer If you're going to engage in conspiracy theories regarding Epstein's death, it makes more sense to implicate Trump than the Clintons. I've already said that the most likely scenario was that Epstein, despondent over the prospect of spending the rest of his life in prison after being convicted of a crime notoriously unpopular with his fellow prisoners, was left alone long enough to give him an opportunity to kill himself.

Instead of theorizing over whether Trump or the Clintons killed him, I'd rather see an investigation into why Alex Acosta let Epstein walk back in 2008.

@LeopoldBloom It really doesn't though. I know YOU said but nobody cares who YOU are. The likelyhood Trump or the Clintons are involved is just about equal. Both have equal ties, reason, and influence.


If someone forced or set a situation for him to kill himself that is no different than having him taken out by another. What you just deacribed is a textbook prison hit. Again your arguing against conspiracy theories with a conspiracy theory.

Nobody is saying "this is whay happened" other than there needs to be a serious investigation because it wasn't some accident.

@BlueVeins
It's been proven?

@SapphicHeart That would make it a conspiracy fact.

@MethDozer I hope there is a serious investigation, not just of that, but of many incidents during the Trump administration - especially, the events of January 6. Hopefully, Merrick Garland will be confirmed soon as Attorney General and the investigations will begin.

Putting aside any speculation, we know the following.

1. Right-wing nonsense aside, neither the Clintons nor Trump have any [b]credible[/b] history of murdering anyone.
2. Epstein was being held in a federal facility.
3. Both the Clintons and Trump have past associations with Epstein.
4. Epstein was despondent, refusing to eat and sleeping on the floor of his cell, and had been on a suicide watch after already attempting to kill himself.
5. Several cameras in the vicinity of his cell were not working. We don't know if this was deliberate or simply the result of shoddy maintenance. For example, how many other cameras in the prison weren't working?
6. Budgetary constraints precluded keeping Epstein on suicide watch for a longer period.
7. Epstein's cellmate, who presumably could have kept an eye on him, was transferred out, leaving him by himself. The reason for this transfer is unknown. For example, if the cellmate requested the transfer because he didn't like Epstein, that would be different from him being transferred for no apparent reason.

So while both Trump and the Clintons [i]may[/i] have had a motive to eliminate Epstein, Trump had more opportunity in his [i]official[/i] capacity. To implicate the Clintons, you have to speculate not only that they [i]wanted[/i] Epstein dead (which also could apply to Trump); you have to speculate that they used some shadowy "influence" to accomplish this.

@LeopoldBloom The thing is, no he really didn't. You're arguements are so full of logical fallacies. What your saying is the Clinton's or anyone else couldn't have done it without usimg some shadowy influence so it is more likely Trump is involved using shadowy influence. Dude, it really doesn't take many connections for any rich or influential person to set this up im a prison. They are hands down the easiest places to have someone set up like that by anyone who wants to make it happen.

Blue is might be onto something, it does seem you're horny to make it a political isle issue when there isn't one or any reason to beleiev it is.


[quote] For example, if the cellmate requested the transfer because he didn't like Epstein, that would be different from him being transferred for no apparent reason.
Several cameras in the vicinity of his cell were not working. We don't know if this was deliberate or simply the result of shoddy maintenance. For example, how many other cameras in the prison weren't working?

[/quote]


Again, this is textbook example of how prison hits and set-ups work and are arranged. It's by putting people in a certain cell or moving theam ata a certain so things just happen. A prison hit isn't like the movies or the outside world where some assassain comes in and offs you.

Trump and the Clinton's had equal capacity. The Clinton's have way more friends in the system one would imagine in fact simce they are more insiders.

@LeopoldBloom What, you think Trump did it by executive order or some shit? No matter who got epstein killed, they definitely did it by unofficial means.

@BlueVeins I think he's taken the Trump/Russia thing too far and believes we operated exactly like some backwater Eastern Oblast for 4 years

@BlueVeins @MethDozer No, I don’t think Trump did it. But if you think Clinton ordered his death, it makes more sense to assume Trump did it since he had just as much to gain and more opportunity.

No one has any proof that either Trump or Clinton wanted Epstein dead in the first place. The fact that they knew him doesn’t prove anything.

@LeopoldBloom Not saying either did do it. But both had equal ability and that's just a fact. Being acting President wouldn't make it any easier. Like Blue said, it wouldn't be by executive order.
Let's also not forget Trump and the Clintons were friends for a longer time than they were enemies.

No it doesn't prove anything. Yet the likelyhood that someone flew and visited a pedo paradise so many times without being a pedo is monumentally unlikely.

@BlueVeins
Ah, I don't go by conspiracy facts.