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Thoughts on Veganism?

About 5 years ago, I thought Vegans were utterly insane I didn't understand why you would cut out Animal products, it seemed unnatural too me.

I watched a couple documentaries and read into it, it did shock me that animal agriculture produced some of the highest greenhouse gases and it was generally an inefficient way of feeding the population as a whole because of the amount of water and grains an animal requires. The whole way Animals are slaughtered and cows have rods of bull semen forcefully pushed into them seems quite barbaric. For a while I kind of made that link and felt conscious of the meat I was eating and eventually cut it out pretty slowly, my main concern health wise was protein while meat/eggs/diary are convenient sources of protein, it is easy enough if you plan your diet to get it from beans, nuts, legumes, tofu and other sources. I haven't struggled with a protein deficiency but initially I was just not eating well and felt hungry constantly until I started tracking protein intake. I do think a lot of vegans who just don't bother with trying to get protein in really make it easier for people criticising veganism to use them as examples.

In general I feel like we are too entitled like we feel because we are the superior or dominant species, it's okay to kill Animals. They are proven to be sentient, I understand a lot of people will argue they don't posses the complexity of our type of sentience but it just doesn't seem like a good excuse. People dissociate as well from food they eat, most people wouldn't want to kill a cow to then hack up and cook then eat.

It is very odd to think how much my thinking has changed in the past few years to be honest.

What are your thoughts on Veganism? If you disagree what are your arguments against?
If god didn’t want me to eat cows he wouldn’t have made them so yummy
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout
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wildbill83 · 41-45, M
nor would he have given us sharp teeth, a GI tract efficient at digesting meats/proteins, and bodies dependent on nutrients only found in animals/meats I imagine... 🤔
SatanBurger · 36-40, FVIP
Well see I was trying to be vegan but failed for a lot of reasons, so I'll argue my old points on this one from my point of view about what I researched and why I'm not vegan necessarily:

https://sustainablefoodtrust.org/articles/claims-against-meat-fail-to-see-bigger-picture/

I’ve lost count of the number of food campaigners who’ve told me that all we need to do to make food production sustainable is to stop eating meat. Really? What about the environmental impact of palm oil, soya bean oil, rape oil and even sunflower oil production; the over-enrichment of the environment from nitrogen fertiliser; the decline in pollinating insects; the use of pesticides with known harmful impacts that would have been banned years ago were it not for the fact that intensive crop and vegetable growers can’t produce food without them?

What also about the growing problem of soil degradation, not just in the countries from which we import food, but right here in the UK? Environment Secretary Michael Gove himself has warned that we are 30-40 years away from running out of soil fertility on large parts of our arable land. With only minor exceptions, soil degradation is not a problem on UK grasslands.

Contrary to popular belief, continuous crop production is not sustainable. That’s the mistake made by the Sumerians 5,000 years ago in what is now Iraq, and the Romans in North Africa 2,000 years ago, and in both cases the soils have never recovered. Far from abandoning livestock farming on UK grassland, we actually need to reintroduce grass and grazing animals into arable crop rotations. Despite the drop in demand for red meat in the UK (beef consumption down 4% and lamb consumption down more than 30% since 2000), at least one leading conventional farmer has now publicly recognised the agronomic need for grazed grass breaks. Even before there has been any encouragement in policy, I am aware that some arable farmers are already being forced to re-introduce grass and livestock because they can no longer control arable weeds like blackgrass, sterile brome and couch (twitch), which have become resistant to the in-crop herbicides repeatedly applied to them in all-arable rotations.
wildbill83 · 41-45, M
retards. hypocrites. Believe that simply because they don't eat meat, that they don't use things made from animal by-products when nothing could be further from the truth.

JoMalho · 26-30, M
@wildbill83 I'm not disagreeing with you but in some cases it is unnecessary and their can be alternatives. I'm against causing suffering when I feel it's unnecessary like for food. People can be healthy on a meat based diet and also a vegan diet, I'm not against meat eating for health reasons I agree it's convenient and easier to get protein from meat but it is possible for us to get it from plants, some vegans just end up not bothering to look into tracking protein or eating rich sources of plant based protein and as a result get extremely deficient.

It might not be making much difference now but people have started to reduce meat intake in many parts of the world in the UK where I'm from it has dropped. I don't really think everyone will go vegan and it's unrealistic but reducing meat consumption is helping however little, it's still having some effect.
wildbill83 · 41-45, M
@JoMalho there are some minerals that you simply cannot get from plants/vegan food via natural consumption (Vitamin B12, D3, Creatine, Carnosine, DHA, Heme-iron, Taurine, etc.)

Quite frankly, it's absurd to deny a biological necessity as being natural

Your only alternative is to develop a deficiency, take a synthetic alternative (which comes with its own problems), or a concentrated form of the original (vitamins)
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DaughterOfTheDust · 26-30, F
Well, I understand your point here. Only thing I have to disagree with is that humans and animals are equal. We are similar to animals but humans are the superior beings. The philosophical reason is that humans are the only beings that are capable of making free decisions based in reason and will, due to this they are held to standards of morality in which they make judgments of right or wrong. An animal can not be held to this type of standard because they don’t possess the higher order of spirituality needed to be human. For example, if a dog gets out and bites somebody, no one blames the dog, they blame the owner of the dog because the dog could not have known better. The line between human and animal should not be crossed. In history, the primary way to oppress other human begins was to reduce them to animal status so that they will not feel guilty about what they do to others.
JoMalho · 26-30, M
@DaughterOfTheDust I don't think they are equal like some vegans may think. It still just doesn't seem like a good excuse to use them for food or kill them because they are inferior. I know this might sound a little far out but there are many people who suffer with very severe learning disabilities, they don't posses the features you described & they are also not held fully accountable for their actions but we wouldn't think of killing an individual like that or putting them down just because of this. I know in undeveloped parts of the world it does still happen and has happened in history though.
wildbill83 · 41-45, M
They are proven to be sentient...

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wildbill83 · 41-45, M
@JoMalho my point being; without a clear, concise definition of what makes humans sentient; we're hardly in a position to decide whether something else is...

it's a similar circumstance faced by computer engineers; you can't create artificial intelligence without fully understanding human intelligence
JoMalho · 26-30, M
I agree we don't have a deep understanding of what makes humans sentient.

This is more of an emotional argument but I just don't like the idea of inflicting pain unnecessarily to anything that can feel pain or can respond to it, or any being who has a desire to live which almost every animal does. Not everyone will feel the same but that's fair enough.
wildbill83 · 41-45, M
@JoMalho have you ever been to a slaughterhouse?
reflectingmonkey · 51-55, M
I agree with you totally. unlike most meat eaters who get all defensive and insulting when confronted with all the arguments proving that veganism is better , I am someone who first tries to see things clearly. I am a meat eater and I am aware that it makes no sense and slowly I am cutting out animal products from my life. its not because I eat meat that it must be the right thing to do, I am aware that eating meat contradicts my love for animals and the planet and being aware of this contradiction within me will eventually lead me to finding a lifestyle that makes more sense.
damdam · 31-35, M
Just a choice, like any other... I'm not vegan, because I don't care about animals. I like the taste of meat :D
JoMalho · 26-30, M
@damdam I like the honest response, fairplay.
JenKarl · 41-45, C
The nonsense they tell children these days. Must be sponsored by the tofu foundation.
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
Animals are sentient?
redredred · M
more real food for me.
Thingschange4444 · 56-60, M
Mike Tyson became a vegan. I eat a lot of vegetables and hardly any meat but fish in the main..kinda borderline vegetarian lol. But yeah I think it's a choice thing. Eat what makes u feel good. Consciously.
amenforanthony · 36-40, M
I'm vegan. Will be 3 years in July. I was vegetarian for 4.5 years before that. I don't want to contribute to the slaughter of any animals.
I have no arguments for or against.
It’s food.
Eat what you like.
Honestly, I’ve never criticized what others chose to eat, so I needed neither an epiphany of my own nor any reason to debate others. I eat what I choose, which rarely but occasionally includes meat. And when vegans come to visit they are served vegan meals at my table. They don’t have to defend anything to me, but they don’t preach to me either.
JoMalho · 26-30, M
@HoraceGreenley I really don't agree with that line of thinking, it's a stupid way to judge people and I will judge people based on there actions too me and how they treat people. I consider it a more positive choice to not eat meat but we live in a diverse world of opinions so I can accept people not in line with my way of thinking, If people are interested or ask me questions I'll talk too them. None of my friends are even Vegan

 
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